Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
#1
I just heard you're getting rid of spell fusions for the new Earth and Sea update, presumably because of the new character class. for pity's sake, keep the spell fusions! they're awesome! just add new ones for the shamans! seriously, each class doesn't need to interact with every other class. hunters can already only trigger a fusions from warriors. adding more fusions will add fun to the game! taking fusions away will remove fun from the game! it seems pretty clear to me which is the superior option here. who's with me?
 

Zar

Great Adventurer
Characters
Zarola, North
Platform
Android, PC
#2
The devs are taking them out due the lag they cause. The fusions are fun and will be missed, but I have to actually agree with the devs as the fusions definitely cause to much unnecessary lag.
 
Characters
Caraldor / Loxana
Platform
iOS, PC
#3
I can understand the arguement for fusions, but honestly I have almost never noticed the,, and the game is already too easy. Removing something such as this might actually make it more challenging.
 

Giruv

Citizen
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
#4
Yes please don't take out the fusion, unless you can really guarantee that it will reduce lag significantly, that make it a worthy trade
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
#5
I would be arguing a lot harder in favor of keeping spell fusions... (I absolutely LOVE them!! Have done since the very first Equinox when they were introduced and lit up the desert sky brilliantly. However, they already had the first nail banged into their coffin with Starfall, when the chances of them triggering became nearly nil. You simply never have them trigger as often as you used to, so visually, they make less of an impact, because they rarely occur.)

HOWEVER, since the main purpose of removing them is to reduce lag (and I am ALL in favor of that! I think it's the number one thing that turns new players away from the game), then I can't argue against it.

It's the graphics from the fusions that I'll miss the most. Those beautiful black butterflies.... *sniff, sniff* All the spell fusions were even prettier than my much-lamented elemental sheep. (Wish that the main questline in Keppel Cavern had one of each type on display, along with the inferno sheep -- Yes, even though it wouldn't be very logical because of the plot line! LOL)
 
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
#6
In my experience what mostly causes lag is a poor Internet connection. I got a new USB WiFi adapter with an antenna for my computer (same WiFi router but computer-end upgrade) and my lag problems are a thing of the past now. I seriously doubt spell fusions cause any more lag that any of the other effects the elders produce on their own. Those have fancy graphics as well.
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
#8
Perhaps the fusion effects could be worked into a toy instead.
That's a great idea!!

I honestly get the impression that the removal of spell fusions is a fait accompli. Even if we argue about it until we're blue in the face, it's not going to have any effect. It's happening whether we like it or not. (And imo this is low on the priority scale of things to argue about!) LOL

And regarding the fancy graphics that the elders themselves produce, the devs aren't going to make those look any less impressive. If the lag is created by a combo of our spell fusion effects/graphics caused by our own individual effects (like the water shaman's tidal wave or the earth shaman's earthquake) AND the effects of elders, of course they're going to lessen our own effects and leave the elders' effects as they are. It's more important for the elders to appear powerful and mighty than us mere mortals! :p
 

Dawnfire

Great Adventurer
Characters
Athon Stormborne
Platform
Android, PC
#9
I'm not super tech savy but as far as I understand (and please correct me if im wrong) the server doesn't produce any graphics, that all happens on your computer. The server simply calculates stuff like spell fusion (can it happen? whose the source? whose the fuser? what damage numbers will happen? how long will it stay on the target? etc.). This can produce lag as it takes away processing power. When you lag during let's say an event fight with 50 people that mostly happens due to the crazy amount of calculations the server needs to do. The "graphic lag" or fps drop has nothing to do with the server or the "normal lag". That can be your computer, bad optimisation or both.

Apart from the tech blabla, I guess I'll miss them too. While not super integral part of the game for me they were a nice touch that said there are combos and interaction between classes. But if this means less lag I can live with that
 
Royal Guardian
Platform
Android, PC
#10
That's a great idea!!

I honestly get the impression that the removal of spell fusions is a fait accompli. Even if we argue about it until we're blue in the face, it's not going to have any effect. It's happening whether we like it or not. (And imo this is low on the priority scale of things to argue about!) LOL

And regarding the fancy graphics that the elders themselves produce, the devs aren't going to make those look any less impressive. If the lag is created by a combo of our spell fusion effects/graphics caused by our own individual effects (like the water shaman's tidal wave or the earth shaman's earthquake) AND the effects of elders, of course they're going to lessen our own effects and leave the elders' effects as they are. It's more important for the elders to appear powerful and mighty than us mere mortals! :p
sigh, you're probably right about the fait accompli. another great feature of the game, lost forever. and what will we do with our training grounds now? :'(
but I still bet they could fix it if they wanted to. judging how much they already reduced the time on the fusable effects in a previous update, I suspect somebody over never liked spell fusions in the first place.
 
Characters
Caraldor / Loxana
Platform
iOS, PC
#11
I'm not super tech savy but as far as I understand (and please correct me if im wrong) the server doesn't produce any graphics, that all happens on your computer. The server simply calculates stuff like spell fusion (can it happen? whose the source? whose the fuser? what damage numbers will happen? how long will it stay on the target? etc.). This can produce lag as it takes away processing power. When you lag during let's say an event fight with 50 people that mostly happens due to the crazy amount of calculations the server needs to do. The "graphic lag" or fps drop has nothing to do with the server or the "normal lag". That can be your computer, bad optimisation or both.

Apart from the tech blabla, I guess I'll miss them too. While not super integral part of the game for me they were a nice touch that said there are combos and interaction between classes. But if this means less lag I can live with that
I think one of the devs explained it in a live stream, but what you explained sounds familiar i think.
 
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
PC, Steam
#12
I guess I'm in the minority... again.
I never liked the fact that only a combination of this and that class could produce a fusion. Perhaps that was the point, but it did little for me other than to add one more detail to try and keep up with in a game that has already become more complex since Starfall. I'm not saying the game is that hard, but it does tend to get unnecessarily overcomplicated in some respects. I just don't see the need for this particular mechanic and never did. I never bothered with them and will not miss them.
 
Platform
PC
#13
I love the fusions, or rather the way that different classes used could use them to work together. I had hoped they would be kept and improved, but they have been ignored for awhile now and its not surprising they will be removed. I hope we find new ways for the classes to work together to replace them. It is the attention to details and the hidden surprises that help to make V&H a great game.
 
Likes: Zazie
Forum Moderator
Characters
IrishElf, Rishi, Irish, Elf
Platform
PC
#14
I used to see my character come to a standstill when one class would spam one certain feat, it started out OK but as some players used it over and over my fps would tank!
While the visual feats are so fun, the players complaints about lag has to be addressed. So the visuals are the choice to chop.
 
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
PC, Steam
#15
If people like to use the fusions but the visuals are an issue, why not retain the fusions with toned down effects or just remove the effects, outright?
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
#16
I just thought of something to add to the pro-spell fusions argument: Combining one subclass' special effect with that of another subclass is a quick and easy argument for justifying the mere existence of certain subclasses. (As a shadow priest since right after Starfall, I'm periodically asked to justify my choice to play a shadow priest instead of a holy priest. Some people get it, but others don't and try to pick a fight over it and/or assume an elitist attitude.) Group combat should be at its best when you don't just have each class represented, but a variety of subclasses, too. Each subclass should bring something unique to the table.

New players often want to know what makes each subclass unique. Spell fusions are the best answer to this question, especially for many of the less popular dps classes or the ones which are viewed as "weaker." (Not that it necessarily needs to be spell fusions which help with this, but if spell fusions are removed, I'd like to see something else in this vein added.)
 
Likes: Kookaburra
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
#17
I just thought of something to add to the pro-spell fusions argument: Combining one subclass' special effect with that of another subclass is a quick and easy argument for justifying the mere existence of certain subclasses. (As a shadow priest since right after Starfall, I'm periodically asked to justify my choice to play a shadow priest instead of a holy priest. Some people get it, but others don't and try to pick a fight over it and/or assume an elitist attitude.) Group combat should be at its best when you don't just have each class represented, but a variety of subclasses, too. Each subclass should bring something unique to the table.

New players often want to know what makes each subclass unique. Spell fusions are the best answer to this question, especially for many of the less popular dps classes or the ones which are viewed as "weaker." (Not that it necessarily needs to be spell fusions which help with this, but if spell fusions are removed, I'd like to see something else in this vein added.)
Sorry but the argument spell fusions should stay because it gives you an argument to play shadow priest is nonsense. You are free to play any class and subclass you like, and when they ask to change to holy you can just say no. If they pester you about changing over that is harrassment and you should report them. If you wish to give them a 'why shadow' argument, the only one you'll need is 'because I like playing shadow'. If they want a holy priest they can go play one themselves. There is nothing to justify.
 
Characters
Chiarale
Platform
iOS, PC
#18
I just thought of something to add to the pro-spell fusions argument: Combining one subclass' special effect with that of another subclass is a quick and easy argument for justifying the mere existence of certain subclasses. (As a shadow priest since right after Starfall, I'm periodically asked to justify my choice to play a shadow priest instead of a holy priest. Some people get it, but others don't and try to pick a fight over it and/or assume an elitist attitude.) Group combat should be at its best when you don't just have each class represented, but a variety of subclasses, too. Each subclass should bring something unique to the table.

New players often want to know what makes each subclass unique. Spell fusions are the best answer to this question, especially for many of the less popular dps classes or the ones which are viewed as "weaker." (Not that it necessarily needs to be spell fusions which help with this, but if spell fusions are removed, I'd like to see something else in this vein added.)
I think you should just perform the equivalent of flatulence in their face and cast Contagion.
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
#19
Sorry but the argument spell fusions should stay because it gives you an argument to play shadow priest is nonsense. You are free to play any class and subclass you like, and when they ask to change to holy you can just say no. If they pester you about changing over that is harrassment and you should report them. If you wish to give them a 'why shadow' argument, the only one you'll need is 'because I like playing shadow'. If they want a holy priest they can go play one themselves. There is nothing to justify.
Yes, I do that. But instead of saying "shadow priest" you could also say "fury warrior" or "ice wizard" or "marksman hunter" or even recently "nature hunter." The main point is that not only should each class have its own strengths but also that each subclass should have obvious benefits for group combat besides the simple fact of being a dps toon. Imo, the role of dps needs to be broken down a little bit further. Players expect to be able to define dps subclasses in certain tangible ways, and when this doesn't happen, they are often disappointed in the subclass. They feel that healers should heal and shield and that shadow priests are all about casting curses and debuffs, which really isn't the case at all. Shadow priests DOT feats don't reduce an enemy's armor or magic resist. That's condemn, and holy priests can use that feat just as shadow priests can. It isn't something unique to either subclass, and because of this, the shadow priest's strengths in group combat are very well hidden (apart from their pure dps, that is.)

It isn't just about telling people why I might want to play one of these subclasses but of ensuring that each subclass is viewed as interesting and viable from the beginning of the game all the way through until level cap. What would happen if there were only a few players of a specific subclass? Would the imbalance be tangible? And if not, isn't that a bad thing? If there's a big group running an event zone and all classes are represented, but all the warriors present are lightning, and all the wizzies are fire, shouldn't that imbalance be reflected in the combat itself? (Not necessarily in the difficulty, but in how the individuals in the group interact with each other's feats.) I'm less interested in combos for individual players (like the shaman has) than in group combos of some sort. The individual subclasses should be working together well and should complement each other nicely. Each subclass should feel valued in group combat because they provide something unique that the other players in the group can play off of. If they feel that their presence isn't well-received or appreciated (as in, it doesn't matter which dps toon I bring, they're all interchangeable and any one of them will do), it's not good for the overall health of the game. :)
 
Likes: Zeph

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
#20
I may have misunderstood the discussion on the Livestream, but my understanding from what was said was that fusions were being removed for several reasons, of which the lag generated by the animations and by the fusions themselves was only one. Other reasons included the fact that fusions did not in fact perform the function for which they were originally intended, that there were "under the hood" issues which made them extremely buggy and other coding issues which became obvious when considering the addition of the Shaman class.

I may also have been merely wishful thinking or reading more into what was said that was actually meant, but I thought that it was hoped to (later) introduce some alternative (and better) mechanic to encourage more class interaction.
 
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