Catori

Squirrel
Platform
PC
Let's say instead of getting a green item, you get a blue item. Instead of getting a blue item you get an epic item. Instead of getting an epic item, you get a legendary item. This would be for future drops only.
I've read your post numerous times, all of them actually, but this is specifically what makes me wonder if you have taken crafted gear into account, all of crafted gear. Which gear specifically are you referring to? And why are you only having this happen on drops? If I am giving up enhancing all my gear, then with this green to blue and blue to epic and so on, it sounds like I am going to be doing a lot of searching for drops to wear that give me the upgrade that you are removing enhancing for. And you didn't give me a clue about what will happen to replace the enhanced jewelry and trinkets you will be taking away. It's already very hard to find the feats I wish on my jewelry, but now I'll have to search for blues and up to get them to equal what I could enhance them to now if your plan even includes jewelry and trinkets.
If you think I haven't 'paid full attention' enough to your explanation, it might be because many of my questions about the specifics are going unanswered when I read what you suggest. I did specifically say I craft all the gear I can for my characters to wear, so adding upgraded drops to the game will be of no use to me ...so either way it seems to me that I lose by being a crafter. And I am still left wondering what I will be able to replace enhanced jewelry and trinkets with that I can't craft.
I do seem to recall a thread made sometime in the not so far away past that suggested upgrading dropped gear in such a way as you suggest, basically doing away with bottom tier and adding a top tier and I don't believe the outcome of that suggestion went over well in a livestream. Maybe someone else will remember what the specifics were of that bit of memory I am having on this very early morning. But I don't remember this suggestion also wanting to do away with enhancing for the sake of not having to accomplish the village side of the game with alts.
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
I've read your post numerous times, all of them actually, but this is specifically what makes me wonder if you have taken crafted gear into account, all of crafted gear. Which gear specifically are you referring to? And why are you only having this happen on drops?
I have never used the word 'only' in this regard. This would happen to legendary, you would have a dungeon that can now produce legendary items if you get fastest run. You would have crafted items periodically become legendary.

If I am giving up enhancing all my gear, then with this green to blue and blue to epic and so on, it sounds like I am going to be doing a lot of searching for drops to wear that give me the upgrade that you are removing enhancing for.
Again please read carefully
Also balancing would be adjusted so that you would be able to obtain the same quality of item that you are getting now within the same amount of time.

And you didn't give me a clue about what will happen to replace the enhanced jewelry and trinkets you will be taking away. It's already very hard to find the feats I wish on my jewelry,
I never said anything about taking away away except the enhancing feature. I don't know who's post you are reading, but it does not look like you are reading mine.

but now I'll have to search for blues and up to get them to equal what I could enhance them to now if your plan even includes jewelry and trinkets.
It would include everything.

If you think I haven't 'paid full attention' enough to your explanation, it might be because many of my questions about the specifics are going unanswered when I read what you suggest. I did specifically say I craft all the gear I can for my characters to wear, so adding upgraded drops to the game will be of no use to me ...so either way it seems to me that I lose by being a crafter. And I am still left wondering what I will be able to replace enhanced jewelry and trinkets with that I can't craft.
Last I remember you cannot craft jewelry
Ok I have updated my original post to clear things up, please have a look. You probably missed some of my posts in this topic and maybe that is why you are confused on the issue. You WOULD be able to craft a legendary item, with a similar chance as it once was for epic. You also have to consider the time it takes to enhance. surely they don't want to speed up progress for us, so that would have to be balanced.

But I don't remember this suggestion also wanting to do away with enhancing for the sake of not having to accomplish the village side of the game with alts.
I just think the argument that crafting would be useless without enhancement makes absolutely no sense. Craft means to create, Not pay gold to the air and out pops a better item. Clearly it was created just to force all account characters to have to max a couple of the same skills in order to have full access to the content available. I just wanted to see if anyone cares really to be honest. I know most people who continue to play this game are playing because they are attached to the way it is. And the devs surely have no intention to change something that generates income. I guess I like to see if there is anyone else out there that questions reality the way I do:D
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Ok, first of all, to attempt to avoid another round of misunderstandings and unnecessary bad feeling, when the OP says "drops" he actually means loot dropped by mobs, quest rewards, elder gear and crafted gear. For some reason, despite several posters being misled by his use of the single word drop instead of saying what he actually means, he refuses to actually clarify this, preferring instead to criticise others for "assuming" he meant only drops when he said drops, and suggesting that they either can't read or understand basic English. To be fair though, he has said that he didn't mean to belittle anyone and is sorry if people felt that way, and has also now also edited his opening post.

To summarise the overall discussion, the OP feels that enhancing should be removed so that it is not necessary to max all crafts to be able to get the best gear. He feels that he should be able to get the equivalent level of gear through "drops" particularly drops from dungeons by which I assume he actually means the quest rewards for completing the dungeon in time to earn gold silver etc. I have to assume this is what he actually means, because although he refers to these continually as drops, he also mentions that they are soulbound, which is why he cannot trade them with another player to have it enhanced.

Several players have pointed out that it is possible to get legendary stats etc on another piece of gear and gnog that onto the dungeon item (ie take the runes from it, but the stats from the item obtained through crafting or from monster drops). This is not good enough. OP insists that it should be possible to get the best gear in the game from dungeon drops. Again, I can only assume that dungeon drops offer stats which no other gear in the game has, or this simply doesn't make sense.

Several people have pointed out that enhancing applies to items such as jewellery which if enhancing were not possible would require players to kill mobs over and over again in hopes of finally obtaining a legendary necklace which has a cure rune and has stats which they like. OP hasn't really answered this, except to suggest legendary drops could simply drop at the same rate that epics currently do.

OP has also added in his edit of the opening post, that there should be a further tier called fabled above legendary (actually true legendary as opposed to the enhanced epics, ie with three rare stats) which would be extremely rare. Quite apart from neatly destroying his own answer to the point above about jewellery, in essence this would mean the very best gear would only be obtained by those who did combat over and over until they obtained that incredibly rare drop (and yes monster drops are virtually the ONLY way to obtain jewellery). So as some have pointed out already, and OP refuses to acknowledge, what he is actually proposing is a system in which the very best gear is ONLY obtainable through combat, crafting and crafters are largely irrelevant, and those of us who prefer crafting should simply accept our status as second class citizens whose only function is to provide those runes such as reinforcement runes which are currently available only on crafted gear, and which should continue to be only available through random chance, since randomness is the only thing that makes crafting interesting (in OP's view).
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
But why add another tier above legendary? It will be an endless circle if you start that. Players getting the best of the best, being OP, getting nerfed, new tier, getting the best, OP, nerfed, new tier etcetcetc. And us poor regulars get killed at sight because we're still at uncommon, which, according to the starfall livestream, would (should) be enough to get through the game too. The last is already hardly the point anymore, please dont make it worse yet again
 

Caraldor Loxana Luther

Jack Of All Trades
Characters
Caraldor/Loxana/Mrs Doubtfire
Platform
iOS, PC
But why add another tier above legendary? It will be an endless circle if you start that. Players getting the best of the best, being OP, getting nerfed, new tier, getting the best, OP, nerfed, new tier etcetcetc. And us poor regulars get killed at sight because we're still at uncommon, which, according to the starfall livestream, would (should) be enough to get through the game too. The last is already hardly the point anymore, please dont make it worse yet again
I agree. Before expansion I did get a toon through to the end with gear that was subpar green and some blues, and not even at level for some pieces. It was not easy. Gotrin was a pita, šŸ˜
 
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Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Please note I do not have any evidence or even reasons to believe, that the purpose of the OPs suggestion was to remove the value of crafting or crafters. If any of my posts seemed to suggest or even imply that I did, that suggestion was wrong and I apologise for it.

Nothing in what the OP has suggested indicates that they wish to devalue crafting. I just personally believe that doing as the OP asks would have that unintended and undesirable result.
 
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Queeny

Citizen
Royal Guardian
Characters
Jenny The Brave ...
Platform
Android, PC
Tbh, when I see how many times this thread is viewed against the few unique player comments this is a very confusing thread.
I have been trying reading over and over it.
Op wants to be enhancing removed - let every single drop/quest reward/dungeon reward/ already be "enhanced by default".
Does that mean: if you have a, let's say: uncommon drop/quest reward ā€¦ it should by default be, let's say: common.
Common becomes then rare
Rare becomes legendary
Legendary becomes epic

Do I understand correct?

If every single dropped item, and I mean literally dropped item, I can imagine how busy some regions would be :(
To be honest I do like the venturing/combat more then the crafting, but sometimes I only want to do some easy peasy crafting on my own.

Imo, dropped gear is gear that is literally 'dropped' by the monster/bounty/elder you kill, so unbound and can be enhanced yes.

I agree with quest reward/dungeon rewards being soulbound, I honestly wouldn't even being it acct bound. Imo if you want more then 1 char, work for it. And as it has been stated in one of the comments above. I also use my highest skill crafted char to enhance gear for my lower chars, although not always.

Anyway my 2 cents and I would not want enhancing to be out of the game.
 
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Joleen

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Kavita, Katona, Toget, Avani
Platform
Android, PC
I would like to see MORE enhancements. I would like to see things like Shivergear, Elder gear and the like be enhancements instead of gnoggable. I dislike wasting rune spots, and wasting SHOP items like sockets on items which fall into that particular category.
 
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Joleen

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Kavita, Katona, Toget, Avani
Platform
Android, PC
Which randomness are you speaking about? To me I think there is not enough randomness... You want crafting to be like you get the same exact thing every time you craft? The little bit of randomness that does exist is prob one of the few things keeping it alive in my view,
OH! So you LIKE it when you get totally useless gear!? You're an interesting breed!
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I would like to see MORE enhancements. I would like to see things like Shivergear, Elder gear and the like be enhancements instead of gnoggable. I dislike wasting rune spots, and wasting SHOP items like sockets on items which fall into that particular category.
I think you may be confusing enhancements (improving gear at crafting stations) with Enchantments (such as Yorick's hat or the jumping boots).
 

Joleen

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Kavita, Katona, Toget, Avani
Platform
Android, PC
Ahaha! Maj, you're correct!
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
But why add another tier above legendary? It will be an endless circle if you start that. Players getting the best of the best, being OP, getting nerfed, new tier, getting the best, OP, nerfed, new tier etcetcetc. And us poor regulars get killed at sight because we're still at uncommon, which, according to the starfall livestream, would (should) be enough to get through the game too. The last is already hardly the point anymore, please dont make it worse yet again
There is already a tier above legendary. it comes from the Calendar, It also came from a compensation package as 2 rings and a necklace a while back,. This would be the new tier, it just would not be called legendary in my proposal so as to not confuse legendary with a different legendary quality.
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
OH! So you LIKE it when you get totally useless gear!? You're an interesting breed!
Well I mean what online roleplaying type of games would drop something that you can use every single drop? If you have all legendary gear on would not just common and rare drops for the most part be useless? But they are not completely useless I mean you can sell them or break them down into materials to be used for more crafting.

Having no randomness at all would be like getting an epic item with the exact stats that you want every time you craft. Or like killing a specific bounty for the exact epic item that you know he will drop. You might like that idea? But doesn't that take away some of the adventure of the hunt? If the devs of any game have ever created a mechanic that prolongs player time in the game so that they will play longer then I would say.. randomness is one of the better mechanics created.. Because it also adds a dynamic of mystery to each fight. And each craft.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
There is already a tier above legendary. it comes from the Calendar, It also came from a compensation package as 2 rings and a necklace a while back,. This would be the new tier, it just would not be called legendary in my proposal so as to not confuse legendary with a different legendary quality.
No, there isn't. The calendar items are true legendary items since they have three rare stats as well as higher stat values than epic. Enhanced epic items are not "true" legendary items, since they have only 2 rare stats. Just as enhanced rare items are not true epics, since they still have only one rare stat, and enhanced uncommon, even if it attains "rare" status is not a true rare since it still doesn't have any rare stats at all.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Well I mean what online roleplaying type of games would drop something that you can use every single drop? If you have all legendary gear on would not just common and rare drops for the most part be useless? But they are not completely useless I mean you can sell them or break them down into materials to be used for more crafting.

Having no randomness at all would be like getting an epic item with the exact stats that you want every time you craft. Or like killing a specific bounty for the exact epic item that you know he will drop. You might like that idea? But doesn't that take away some of the adventure of the hunt? If the devs of any game have ever created a mechanic that prolongs player time in the game so that they will play longer then I would say.. randomness is one of the better mechanics created.. Because it also adds a dynamic of mystery to each fight. And each craft.
The randomness that many of us would like to see removed from crafting (only) is in the sense that you have no control over which stats the crafted item will have. A system which allowed drops and quest rewards etc to have higher, but randomly selected stats whilst crafted had perhaps slightly lower stats, but where you could choose a different recipe to guarantee (say) expertise and clarity stats on the gear is what many players would prefer I believe. Every crafted item would still have a chance of being rare, epic etc, and the stats for each tier would have different ranges of possible values, but at least there would be some measure of control over the build of your character.
 

Littlenymph

Squirrel
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
PC, Steam
Which randomness are you speaking about? To me I think there is not enough randomness... You want crafting to be like you get the same exact thing every time you craft? The little bit of randomness that does exist is prob one of the few things keeping it alive in my view,
The emphasis is mine.
I'm not sure it's possible for me to overstate the extremity of that understatement. I do not believe "the little bit" can be applied to something which is present in every piece of gear in the game, regardless of the source of that gear. Since when does 100% saturation constitute a little bit?

Having no randomness at all would be like getting an epic item with the exact stats that you want every time you craft. Or like killing a specific bounty for the exact epic item that you know he will drop. You might like that idea? But doesn't that take away some of the adventure of the hunt? If the devs of any game have ever created a mechanic that prolongs player time in the game so that they will play longer then I would say.. randomness is one of the better mechanics created.. Because it also adds a dynamic of mystery to each fight. And each craft.
Your adventure of the hunt seems to be the same as my grind. I don't have that much of an issue with randomness in dropped gear. It only makes sense that such would be random. I'm a little less tolerant of it when it comes to quest gear, but the crafted gear is where I draw the line. If your average crafted item is little more than an approximation of what you are setting out to make, you are no craftsman. I can see where the quality of the crafted gear can be variable, but the actual stats and runes? Its very structure and composition? No. When a craftsman sets out to make a fork, a fork he should make. There is no reason why that craftsman should finish his project to discover he has made a spoon. Oh well, let's try that again. Oh, wait. Look at this. I've invented the spork! No. Aside from the issue of quality, a crafted item should yield the same result every time. The uniformity of crafted gear makes as much sense as the randomness of dropped gear. You can [and should] still combine that uniform crafted gear with the random gear from drops to create unique and powerful items that are superior to that which comes only from drops or crafting. I agree that a little randomness can be a good thing, but it does not need to be applied to every aspect of the game.
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
Several players have pointed out that it is possible to get legendary stats etc on another piece of gear and gnog that onto the dungeon item (ie take the runes from it, but the stats from the item obtained through crafting or from monster drops). This is not good enough.
Last I remember.. If I gnogment a soulbound item with a non-soulbound item. The non-soulbound item becomes soulbound.
Whether it is good enough or not is your opinion. I never said such a thing.
What I did try to get across.. is that since dungeon items are soulbound, Like if you are playing an alt on your account currently, and if you really like a dungeon reward armor or weapon or neck, or hat or belt (better mention them all encase the unmentioned counts as exclusion?)... You would in fact have to have your crafting levels high enough to enhance that item since you cannot trade it. Which is what enhancing does, locks every character into having to level not 1 but 2 crafts, meaning you must level the same craft multiple times.. if you want your soulbound items enhanced on all characters.

OP insists that it should be possible to get the best gear in the game from dungeon drops. Again, I can only assume that dungeon drops offer stats which no other gear in the game has, or this simply doesn't make sense.
I think you are twisting this up a bit.. But allow me to expand on this again. I insist instead of legendary becoming the result of enhancing epic. All sources of epic drops could produce Legendary drops that would be the equivalent to what once was a 5/5 enhanced epic. Balancing would be needed to make it so the crafter is producing the same quality per time spent. So that combat would obtain a legendary item in the same amount of time it takes to receive an epic item and enhance that item... Dungeon reward would take a gold run and if that is too easy the gold run would be slightly harder where as the epic run would be slightly easier, giving balance to the new system.

But your makes me wonder if you are assuming the current system epic drops are the best drops? Because again nothing changes really once you understand the theory of what I am proposing. Now the extra tier that I did propose.. that is a whole different ball game and would require not just a much more extreme rarity, but also a balancing to the difficulty of the game. But that is essentially just a cosmetic addition also once you understand that I am indeed assuming that 'balancing' would have to be done to make them sit in the mix so that game difficulty would not change.

OP has also added in his edit of the opening post, that there should be a further tier called fabled above legendary (actually true legendary as opposed to the enhanced epics, ie with three rare stats) which would be extremely rare. Quite apart from neatly destroying his own answer to the point above about jewellery, in essence this would mean the very best gear would only be obtained by those who did combat over and over until they obtained that incredibly rare drop (and yes monster drops are virtually the ONLY way to obtain jewellery).
Should is kind of a strong word and in fact a word that I did not mention. How about could? I think it better reflects what I wrote in my first post.
Again.. if such a tier were introduced into the game then I would think it would be available across the board where needed so that all methods of obtaining gear continue to retain the same value? I have never insisted otherwise. Right now you can get rings only from drops I believe. What is the different if rings can drop as fabled? vs hats can be crafted as fabled.. vs dungeon can produce on very rare occasion.. a fabled item. Where not the gold run itself but the time left might increase the chance slightly.. but it could still be once in a few month luck kind of thing. And again if it causes any trouble to game difficulty then balancing would be made so that all this would actually be a cosmetic change.


So as some have pointed out already, and OP refuses to acknowledge, what he is actually proposing is a system in which the very best gear is ONLY obtainable through combat, crafting and crafters are largely irrelevant,
What I am actually proposing.. to correct you.. Is that you would not have to grind the same crafting skills multiple times... Again to make sure you understand what I am proposing and all...

The very best gear would be available in all instances that you currently obtain the best gear... (minus enhancing) wait let m,e say again
The very best gear would be available in all instances that you currently obtain the best gear.... (minus enhancing) oh maybe.. let me say again
The very best gear would be available in all instances that you currently obtain the best gear.... (minus enhancing)
Just let me know if you are still confused I will continue to try and get my point across if you need me to..

and those of us who prefer crafting should simply accept our status as second class citizens whose only function is to provide those runes such as reinforcement runes which are currently available only on crafted gear, and which should continue to be only available through random chance, since randomness is the only thing that makes crafting interesting (in OP's view).
If the elimination of enhancing feature makes you a second class citizen.. Then I suppose so?
I wouldn't say 'only'. I like crafting, I just don't like enhancement because it's purpose is not just to enhance, It also used to force players into having to max the same craft on multiple characters. I would first prefer temporary enchants from a spellcaster then this feature though. Like a spellcaster casts enchant weapon 'Light' on a player, and the players sword gains a temporary illumination buff on the sword that lights up the area.

Crafting would retain the same value as it always has. New features could also be added to crafting to make it even more useful But do these features really have to lock you in to having to grind that same craft on multiple characters? What if I said you have to play two separate priests. One shadow and one light, because once you choose your talents, they become soulbound... And sure some over achievers will max out 2 priests so they can have both if that were the case. I am suggesting it is fine like it is though. I am now also suggesting that kind of freedom be applied to crafting as well.
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
but at least there would be some measure of control over the build of your character.
Yeah but in this proposal of yours... would it not be too easy to get what you want? I mean that is one point of the randomness, so that players have to work at something. Also you want to be just like every single player? with the exact same stats? Just sounds boring to me. The bit of chance in games is kind of cool. I think anyway.
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
There is no reason why that craftsman should finish his project to discover he has made a spoon. Oh well, let's try that again. Oh, wait. Look at this. I've invented the spork!
Well how would you balance this with combat.. you would agree of course that this would make crafting so much more superior to finding items then wild drops.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Ok, to save you from having to "check that I understand" what you are proposing, I do.

What you are proposing is that items obtained from any source (crafting, drops, quest rewards, etc) should be able to (rarely) drop as legendary, and that this should replace the current system of enhancing gear. The reason for suggesting this is so that it is possible for a player to get the best possible gear on more than one character without being required to max out crafts on all of them.

My opposition to this is based on two main points - one, I consider it unnecessary, since you can obtain legendary stats by asking a crafter to enhance a tradeable item such as can be obtained from crafting or as a monster drop, and two, I believe that it removes one of only two benefits, in terms of gear, that crafting currently provides which combat does not. (Those two things being enhancing and the runes exclusive to crafted gear.)

If there is to be a crafting element in the game at all, then there has to be a purpose to crafting - a reason to do it. If you enable every advantage that crafting affords to be obtainable through combat alone, crafting becomes a worthless activity. The game is about villagers and heroes. Both support the other, but both also have some things the other cannot do, or at least, they should. Only the character who does both, should be able to have all the advantages of both. Players who only do crafting are dependent on heroes to bring them high level mats etc, whilst those who only do combat are dependent on the crafters to make them gear, buffs and potions. And only the character who does it all, crafting and combat, can have it all.
 
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