Kitty the Hunter

Huntress
Platform
PC
I don't see many players I suspect to be bots in the game and I have played nearly every day for years. What I do see are players concluding other players are bots with unreasonable assumptions and faulty logic, (made a purchase, gathered too long, didn't wave or chat, etc.) I see players trying to disrupt my gathering by jumping on my nodes, even after I ask them to stop. These complaints that we are overrun by bots are simply unfounded and the game is already suffering from these tireless and unfounded accusations. I will always prefer a mod to check on a bot rather than rely on some program that will only disrupt and frustrate honest players, because nothing suggested here has not been tried and failed elsewhere.
 

Kitty the Hunter

Huntress
Platform
PC
Regarding gathering without tools, this must be a bug because looking under the skills tab, and clicking on the ? in the lower corner (pc) is a section called Tools, it states we can not gather without the proper tool equipped. Sorry to disappoint anyone who thought otherwise.
 

Entelligente Ente

Adventurer
Platform
PC
Regarding gathering without tools, this must be a bug because looking under the skills tab, and clicking on the ? in the lower corner (pc) is a section called Tools, it states we can not gather without the proper tool equipped. Sorry to disappoint anyone who thought otherwise.
Maybe it was added as a new feature and they forgot to change the tooltip? The tooltip for Ranching still says that "the greatest ranchers can raise exotic creatures like the Fire Sheep and the Abyssal Sheep, whose wool is vital to crafting the rarest gear". The Gardening tooltip also mentions Magical Seeds and when you click on Revive after dying, the tooltip still says "you will be weak form Resurrection Wobbles for a while".

Please do not get me wrong, I am not saying that toolless Gathering is an intended feature, I just wanted to point out that tooltips should be taken with a grain of salt.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I will say again what I have already stated, but in perhaps simpler language in case my meaning was not clear.

There is a specific and complex method deliberately coded into the game to prevent players being able to gather indefinitely without being in game to gather repair globules.

It is beyond reasonable doubt that any "feature" to bypass this complex mechanism is not intended, i.e. it is a bug.

Deliberate use of what you know to be a bug is an exploit (ie cheating).

Again, as I said before, this is my personal opinion, not an official Mad Otter announcement.
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
Thank you! I can't tell you how many times I've been harassed by others while trying to gather. In my experience the real problem here isn't cheaters, it's bullies who believe they have the right to police the community at the expense of honest players.
And that's when you begin getting into murkier territory -- where observing behavior and then reporting it ends and where harassment begins. I honestly believe that it's far more difficult recognizing a botter who is gathering than one doing combat...especially when during combat, you can see the pattern of the botter's movements because they are using a simpler macro.

Here's a perfect example: Back when the ultra rare zogs could be traded in for tiny crown bags, my server had issues with a player whom I will refer to here as "The Bearhold Crypt botter." You could stand behind this player and quietly observe the repetition of their combat (until they noticed that they were being watched and quickly logged out.) What particularly stood out was their "sun salutations" -- They would stand in the center of a room, surrounded by felcats at 11 o'clock, 2 o'clock, 5 o'clock, and 7 o'clock. They would target the mob at 11 o'clock, auto-attack it until it was dead, rotate their toon about 45 degrees, target the mob that had been at 2 o'clock (but which was now at 11 o'clock (since their rotation), etc. When they had completed a full 360 degrees rotation, they used the only actual feat programmed into their routine: They healed themselves. (They began doing this in response to players who would drag mobs onto them, thus killing them -- Since they weren't even watching their screen, let alone actively doing combat, their toon was vulnerable and couldn't take on more than one mob at a time without dying.) And the end of the macro, all of the loot lying on the ground surrounding them was magically lifted up into the air all at once, as if there were a giant vacuum cleaner sucking it up. And then their script would begin all over again. Now, since the macro was probably a fairly basic autoclicker, if you were talented, you could make their toon target your own toon, click on you, and if you then moved (because of the auto-follow feature), you could drag them around and abandon them in an area where there were no mobs around for them to kill, which left them trying to target and kill a wall! This toon never moved from their favorite spot. They would hog this "prime real estate" for hours on end, so of course, it was the players who honestly wanted to farm helcat mobs by doing combat who were most likely to observe this botter.

This individual's actions badly annoyed many honest players. Some reported. Some didn't. Even when players reported, their reports may have been incomplete: In order for an incident to be appropriately investigated, concrete proof (or some form of evidence) is required along with the detailed information. (Otherwise, it's just a "he said, she said" situation.) If no MOD was present in the above situation, mere screenshots didn't actually prove anything other than the toon's presence! Screen-capturing video was the way to go, but this was far more complex than the actions most players were willing to take, if they bothered reporting. Most players did nothing (or thought that it was someone else's problem), which is probably a large part of the reason why you can no longer trade sets of ultra rare zogs in for tiny crown bags.

If just ONE player reports an actual botter, with proof (in the form of screenshots and/or video, and a detailed description of the botting), then management can take steps and punish the individual botter instead of the entire community. The trouble is that if everyone knows about the TOS violations occurring and yet no one reports it, then those nice little perks like the tiny crown bags are removed from the game. :(
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
And that's when you begin getting into murkier territory -- where observing behavior and then reporting it ends and where harassment begins. I honestly believe that it's far more difficult recognizing a botter who is gathering than one doing combat...especially when during combat, you can see the pattern of the botter's movements because they are using a simpler macro.

Here's a perfect example: Back when the ultra rare zogs could be traded in for tiny crown bags, my server had issues with a player whom I will refer to here as "The Bearhold Crypt botter." You could stand behind this player and quietly observe the repetition of their combat (until they noticed that they were being watched and quickly logged out.) What particularly stood out was their "sun salutations" -- They would stand in the center of a room, surrounded by felcats at 11 o'clock, 2 o'clock, 5 o'clock, and 7 o'clock. They would target the mob at 11 o'clock, auto-attack it until it was dead, rotate their toon about 45 degrees, target the mob that had been at 2 o'clock (but which was now at 11 o'clock (since their rotation), etc. When they had completed a full 360 degrees rotation, they used the only actual feat programmed into their routine: They healed themselves. (They began doing this in response to players who would drag mobs onto them, thus killing them -- Since they weren't even watching their screen, let alone actively doing combat, their toon was vulnerable and couldn't take on more than one mob at a time without dying.) And the end of the macro, all of the loot lying on the ground surrounding them was magically lifted up into the air all at once, as if there were a giant vacuum cleaner sucking it up. And then their script would begin all over again. Now, since the macro was probably a fairly basic autoclicker, if you were talented, you could make their toon target your own toon, click on you, and if you then moved (because of the auto-follow feature), you could drag them around and abandon them in an area where there were no mobs around for them to kill, which left them trying to target and kill a wall! This toon never moved from their favorite spot. They would hog this "prime real estate" for hours on end, so of course, it was the players who honestly wanted to farm helcat mobs by doing combat who were most likely to observe this botter.

This individual's actions badly annoyed many honest players. Some reported. Some didn't. Even when players reported, their reports may have been incomplete: In order for an incident to be appropriately investigated, concrete proof (or some form of evidence) is required along with the detailed information. (Otherwise, it's just a "he said, she said" situation.) If no MOD was present in the above situation, mere screenshots didn't actually prove anything other than the toon's presence! Screen-capturing video was the way to go, but this was far more complex than the actions most players were willing to take, if they bothered reporting. Most players did nothing (or thought that it was someone else's problem), which is probably a large part of the reason why you can no longer trade sets of ultra rare zogs in for tiny crown bags.

If just ONE player reports an actual botter, with proof (in the form of screenshots and/or video, and a detailed description of the botting), then management can take steps and punish the individual botter instead of the entire community. The trouble is that if everyone knows about the TOS violations occurring and yet no one reports it, then those nice little perks like the tiny crown bags are removed from the game. :(
It is fairly simple. If you see a person who you think is botting, you report by cs ticket to management with explaination why you think he is botting (not saying PROOF, but your motivation to why you think) or you ask a mod to check it out.
It is NOT your job to:
1) jump up and down someones node to 'catch their click'.
2) harrass people with continues waves and chats and insistence on answer, because they are free to ignore you.
3) patrol zones to bother everyone gathering/combating for a long time with botchecks.

A motivation "has been gathering for hours on end without even slight delay between gatherminutes" is enough and devs or mods will take it from there. There is no need to hand in a full essay detailing all the experiments you did to prove someone is a bot.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Thank you! I can't tell you how many times I've been harassed by others while trying to gather. In my experience the real problem here isn't cheaters, it's bullies who believe they have the right to police the community at the expense of honest players.
Harassment is strictly forbidden and should be reported to Customer Support directly if you are being harassed! Take screenshots of any harassment, block the offending player and report to CS at the tab above or ingame through the Customer Support tab. Include the screenshots to support your report and CS will take it from there. If after blocking there is any continued harassment, please report that as well.
If you run into any issues reporting, just use the other dropdown then choose other again (there is a bug in the system right now).
 

RuneFox

Merchant
Platform
Android, PC
Get rid of the gems
As extreme a suggestion as that is I actually have a counter to that to kinda make it work. Now mind you this is extremely out there. But here we go...

Have monsters stop dropping armor and weapons. Have them now start dropping crafting material for gear.

This would cause a shift in the economy which should (if done right) be a way to negate the loss of the gems. The idea would be that now hero's are required to either make their own gear OR require the services of a villager to make their gear(We would actually be able to RP Blacksmiths and tailors! maybe even open up our own shops!!!). The AH would see a new demand for armor/weapons which lets be honest no ones really buying low lvl gear and this could be a way to encourage them too. Well established players who have alts or have worked on mastering their crafting aspect will benefit the most seeing as how they would have a head start for something like this.

BUT that is a whole lot of re-designing and re-working of current systems sooooooo... Maybe keeping the gems is a bit easier?
 

Kitty the Hunter

Huntress
Platform
PC
As extreme a suggestion as that is I actually have a counter to that to kinda make it work. Now mind you this is extremely out there. But here we go...

Have monsters stop dropping armor and weapons. Have them now start dropping crafting material for gear.

This would cause a shift in the economy which should (if done right) be a way to negate the loss of the gems. The idea would be that now hero's are required to either make their own gear OR require the services of a villager to make their gear(We would actually be able to RP Blacksmiths and tailors! maybe even open up our own shops!!!). The AH would see a new demand for armor/weapons which lets be honest no ones really buying low lvl gear and this could be a way to encourage them too. Well established players who have alts or have worked on mastering their crafting aspect will benefit the most seeing as how they would have a head start for something like this.

BUT that is a whole lot of re-designing and re-working of current systems sooooooo... Maybe keeping the gems is a bit easier?
The crafting materials is not what costs, it is the actual making of the gear, nor does this consider other uses for gold beyond crafting. This would not come close to offsetting the loss of income for the majority of players. I doubt many players bot only for gold. I think they also bot for mats, experience, prestige, due to boredom, a lack of time to play, and perhaps other reasons I have not thought of.

I support the suggestion of opening our own shops as it might have unexpected benefits to the economy, and I know I would enjoy roleplaying that.
 

RuneFox

Merchant
Platform
Android, PC
The crafting materials is not what costs, it is the actual making of the gear, nor does this consider other uses for gold beyond crafting. This would not come close to offsetting the loss of income for the majority of players. I doubt many players bot only for gold. I think they also bot for mats, experience, prestige, due to boredom, a lack of time to play, and perhaps other reasons I have not thought of.

I support the suggestion of opening our own shops as it might have unexpected benefits to the economy, and I know I would enjoy roleplaying that.
Good points!

As far as materials not costing anything I think if something like this was implemented those items would at that point have a value since in order to craft gear they would need someone to kill the monster holding that specific material, which at that point the hero would name the price or work with the villager to come to an agreed price.

As far as the reason for boting I admit my comment had nothing to do with that and more so the, "Remove Gems" comment. I apologize.

Edit: If players decided to be the helpful bunch that they are and gave these items away my idea would not work at all. ^,...^
 

Kitty the Hunter

Huntress
Platform
PC
Good points!

As far as materials not costing anything I think if something like this was implemented those items would at that point have a value since in order to craft gear they would need someone to kill the monster holding that specific material, which at that point the hero would name the price or work with the villager to come to an agreed price.

As far as the reason for boting I admit my comment had nothing to do with that and more so the, "Remove Gems" comment. I apologize.

Edit: If players decided to be the helpful bunch that they are and gave these items away my idea would not work at all. ^,...^
Sorry for my misunderstanding, I did not realize you meant that all mats used for crafting would be from monster drops. I can not support this idea at all in any form. What you are proposing overwhelmingly favors the combat players and why should crafters be forced to rely on the combat players? Aside from being blatantly unfair and biased, this would do nothing to deter bots.

Before we change the game into something unplayable and ruin what is a great game (the greatest IMO), lets be sure we have an actual problem to be solved.

I think the real problem we are facing here are GRIEFERS. I do not accuse anyone of this but it seems clear to me that some players want to disrupt the game and ruin the pleasure of other players.
 

RuneFox

Merchant
Platform
Android, PC
Sorry for my misunderstanding, I did not realize you meant that all mats used for crafting would be from monster drops. I can not support this idea at all in any form. What you are proposing overwhelmingly favors the combat players and why should crafters be forced to rely on the combat players? Aside from being blatantly unfair and biased, this would do nothing to deter bots.

Before we change the game into something unplayable and ruin what is a great game (the greatest IMO), lets be sure we have an actual problem to be solved.

I think the real problem we are facing here are GRIEFERS. I do not accuse anyone of this but it seems clear to me that some players want to disrupt the game and ruin the pleasure of other players.
No I appreciate the feed back! It's a great way to flesh out an idea that was thrown together to counter a suggestion that was made earlier. I hope you do not take it as me trying to change things for the worst.

My hope is that it would be something that required both hero's and villagers to work together more than they already are in a sense to achieve what both are looking for, Heros need armor/weapons, Villagers need money. But again this was an extreme and not one that I see as a fix for anything but more of a alternative to the suggestion made. Things are great the way they are and altho I'd like to see more on the side of being a villager I do not wish for such extremes unless they are warranted.

But again just a suggestion, I do not mean to derail the conversation at hand.
 

Leizong

Legendary Hero
Platform
Android, PC
One problem with that is that there are so many friendly and helpful people that you are hardly able to sell stuff when others give the same stuff away for free.
是的,搞不清楚为什么一些人老是在强调他们需要宝石,那些持反对意见的大部分都使用过机器人
 

Leizong

Legendary Hero
Platform
Android, PC
真正的那些休闲玩家有几个,他们不去升级,不去和别人一起聊天,甚至不去重生。我想知道
 
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