Jamay

Squirrel
Characters
Jamayra, Jamaya & Mayjam
Platform
iOS, PC
Hi all:),

I feel I won’t make many friends with this post... but still posting it as I think some things are important to be told... really hope people won’t see me as « snobbish »^-^ or whatever else...

What strikes you first when playing this game is the helpful community around, which is so nice. I hope that won’t change. Though as I’m lvling up with 3 chars & one rebirth, I find the game community « too helpful ». I’ll explain myself.

Mmorpgs are very nice to socialize, to make friends...fighting together... but I find it very hard in this game as most players my level are too used to have elders killed by a higher lvl to the point that they don’t even look for a team or even decline a team or help from same level characters. Also they don’t know how to fight as never really did on their own (comm during fights, boosts, adjust to debuffs - after noticing debuffs if they do^^ etc) so some players just stop fighting in the middle of a fight saying it is « too hard - need help » or because no mana (not prepared & not willing to do so) or because too long fights (want the easy fast way) & they opt for a higher lvl player help even when a team of their lvl is available. I am starting to leave teams politely when a higher lvl player joins explaining why. I know it might look rude, but I don’t see the point of playing if someone else plays the game for me.

I was lucky to have built a guild by having a core of 4-5 people thinking the same way, wanting to have fun first. So I can just say no to those « teams » & wait a little for people to be online. But still.... I will need more than the same 3-5 people on the long run to enjoy the game. Idk if by helping too much, players don’t realize they are killing the game in 2 ways...

1- It is very hard to find more guild members for a new guild past a certain lvl (~lvl 35) as you don’t socialize with new people anymore by fighting together.. you just stay with your own because people just decline to fight thinking it is impossible to fight elders with people our lvl.

2- they don’t learn how to improve themselves & which changes should be done to face a new challenge making the game boring on the long run. There is nothing better than working for something. Cooking, gardening ... & crafting become important and have a reason to exist other than just lvlg up skills to prepare for higher lvls in a game that offers less end game than others. It just makes no sense. I am not criticizing the game here.

I am so perplex when a lvl 47 hunter tells my healer lvl 42 « it’s obvious we can’t do it » like I am retarded :p when I just did it 3-4 times with a lvl 42 marksmen from my guild.... it was fun, we died first time, we came back with adjustments and it took WORK to do it which was so rewarding & constructive. We learnt to know each other, we learnt how to comm during fights making the game very enjoyable... and making us better skilled too when we will play with more experienced players later. They will never experience the fun of tanking with a fire wizard using lifesteal when unable to find a proper tank^^ etc...Sometimes it would be really nice to be more than 2 or 3, but it is mostly impossible to find players our level wanting to fight elders. They just ask for « help » (the term seems so weird by itself as most should look for a team like in other games & not just « help ».). But I know it is not their fault as it is the way the game was introduced to them by more experienced players. Even experienced players do the same after a rebirth (from what I saw ... maybe I’m wrong).

Today we had a team of 3 when suddenly a higher lvl joined to « help »... so one preferred this way as « faster » & « in a hurry » & for the other one, it would have looked weird to decline. I did decline & left because it happens too often. We were ok in fact. We did not need that « help ».

I am not saying not to help. But when someone asks for help, why not giving time for people to answer and find a team. I just don’t understand. When help asked, most of the time I don’t even have time to answer... a higher lvl is already on his way.

I built a guild to experience the game to the fullest as it should be. We are in a public village with the mindset of becoming a private village in the future. We are helping each other, working on projects to enhance our gear etc.. so yes it is annoying when after having done all this, we can’t fight & evolve with new faces like we should. If the point of the community culture is to play alone until we get recruited by a guild already well experienced where projects are no longer important, where others play for us, until reaching a high lvl, I don’t see the point of playing at all. If I want a game to play alone, there are plenty of them out there.

I hesitated to post this as I don’t want to make ennemies & I still think that the helpful community is a plus. With limits. Of course I might need help too from time to time if impossible to find a team .. but at least it is nice to have tried by myself. More I lvl up, more I feel we will be isolated from other players our lvl ...which is not normal. So only way to grow will be to recruit lvl 10~ players & help them kill elders when lvl 20? Perpetuating this weird « help »? I don’t think it is ok. They should be able to find teams their lvl... not because I don’t want to help, but because this is the fun part of the game. I am all willing to help if that person can’t find a team. Tbh, I don’t think we lack players in the game. The problem seems to be that help culture. Am I crazy to want to just play the game?

I don’t think people realize how it can kill a game. World chat becomes boring, there is less interaction giving the impression this game is dead which is clearly not, not to mention it gives the wrong impression that it is only a game you have to play alone. Maybe devs should forbid help from players after a certain lvl like other games do? Idk... I always preferred freedom in a game like this why I am posting this. Don’t take it bad. I love the community. Don’t miss communities from other games either:). But sometimes when too much of good intentions, it can kill the game too imo.

Sorry for that long post^^
 

Kookaburra

Bog Frog
Characters
Kookaburra, Kooky
Platform
PC
I am confused as to how the higher level players get in your party? Does another member of the party request help? Maybe discussing before you start how you are going to run the zone would make sure you are all expecting the same thing in the run.

During my several years in the game, there are certain people I know I can run well with, even if they are not in my guild. It can be hard to run with players for the first time until you get comfortable with their playing style. I don't think too many high level players try to take over a party in a mid-level zone, but a lot of them are willing to help when asked.

In short, it sounds to me more like a communication issue than a problem with the game mechanics. But I could be missing something!
 
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Jamay

Squirrel
Characters
Jamayra, Jamaya & Mayjam
Platform
iOS, PC
I am confused as to how the higher level players get in your party? Does another member of the party request help? Maybe discussing before you start how you are going to run the zone would make sure you are all expecting the same thing in the run.

During my several years in the game, there are certain people I know I can run well with, even if they are not in my guild. It can be hard to run with players for the first time until you get comfortable with their playing style. I don't think too many high level players try to take over a party in a mid-level zone, but a lot of them are willing to help when asked.

In short, it sounds to me more like a communication issue than a problem with the game mechanics. But I could be missing something!

Oh I never said it was a problem of game mechanics. It is indeed a problem of communication. I agree. And maybe a difference in game philosophy inside the community. And I posted this because Idk anymore how to resolve this.

To answer some of your questions, like explained earlier, it will often start by a player asking help. Most of the time, I have no time to answer before a higher lvl player is already on its way. Other times when I am able to say I need that elder too & or can help, there will still be a higher lvl player offering his help which is accepted more willingly than my help by most players of my lvl. Like explained earlier, it seems they got used to that way. Idk why it is like that, but at least it is like this when I play. Sometimes I/we will decide to fight for the first time an elder (struggling which is ok) when I see teams with one higher lvl player helping someone else come by & asking why we did not ask for help seeing we are « struggling » like it was something weird to struggle. Wanting to play the game naturally should be normal... If I ask in world chat for players around my lvl only, I get no answer^^ not to mention it makes me feel like I don’t like the others which is not the case at all. Maybe it is only experienced on my server. Idk. I am relatively new & really enjoy this game because I do play it. Without those group fights, I would not enjoy it that much as it is the core of any mmorpg. And more I lvl up, more it becomes a problem. Was maybe just trying to say to higher lvls to give low lvls some space & chance before offering their help:).
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
I agree with you, I do love the community and i think it is one of the best if not the best community, but at the same time that's also what kill some aspect of the game, like market, competitiveness and challenges.

I am not saying not to help. But when someone asks for help, why not giving time for people to answer and find a team. I just don’t understand. When help asked, most of the time I don’t even have time to answer... a higher lvl is already on his way.
That's very true, and pretty much why i no longer help except when there are no replies

the other thing that i can say lately the leveling curve is bad that make very few player is at the middle level player is very low that making team for elders on that level hard

The only place that making a team relevant now is the dungeon, but it still have flaw that as long as you got a good high level player it can be done easily, i hope in the future it require more teamwork instead of good build for group content
 
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IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I get it and that is or has been an issue for many. Some come into the game and insist they need a high level to "level them fast" which most of us don't want to do at all. Some refuse the help of a high level as you said... Because they want the fun of killing with the chance of dying.

No one should be upset with you if you politely refuse the high level help, especially if you let them know you want the whole experience like they had. But if you do ask for help in world chat, be specific what you'd like when asking. If you are in the 40-50 level, ask for help from other 40-50 levels, then the higher levels won't bother coming to help.

I don't see your issue as snobbish, those of us at cap had to do as you want to do and I remember it was fun. I see it as you just wanting to have the same fun!
 

Jamay

Squirrel
Characters
Jamayra, Jamaya & Mayjam
Platform
iOS, PC
Talked with a guild member & we think maybe the solution should be to cap some lvls from helping lower lvls like wow, order & chaos & most games. It happened again today where we could have been 3 same lvl but player preferred fast kill for quest so went with higher lvl. So we left. They would not ask for it if it was not possible:). Game lacks challenge because of it...

Thx for your replies:))
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Talked with a guild member & we think maybe the solution should be to cap some lvls from helping lower lvls like wow, order & chaos & most games. It happened again today where we could have been 3 same lvl but player preferred fast kill for quest so went with higher lvl. So we left. They would not ask for it if it was not possible:). Game lacks challenge because of it...

Thx for your replies:))
Or as we've done in the past, step back and let them kill the bounty/elder, wait for respawn and kill like you wanted to.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I understand fully the issue that you are facing - and how difficult it is to solve.

Many players ask for "help" when what they really want is someone higher level to kill the elder so they can move on quickly to the next quest or zone etc. Equally, many high level players want to help others level up or kill elders etc, and often don't think to ask whether the lower level players actually want a higher level to do things for them. Players who ask for at level help are sometimes misunderstood and that can make things difficult.

I don't think any sort of forced cap on who can help would work though, since all it would do is fragment the player base in segregated groups.

Perhaps one solution would be if a higher level player offers to help to ask if they would mind bringing a lower level alt instead. I think many of our higher level players would be willing, even happy to do so, since we do want to help, but not to spoil the fun for a lower level player. Most of us just assume the lower player wants the quick kill.
 

Ekimie

Hunter
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
I would still like seeing a downscaling of players at things like Elders. Not when solohitting them, I often see single players just whack down every elder in the game in a row for fun, and it would take out the kick of killing an elder alone for the first time, when you leveled a bit above them.
But as soon a party approaches an elder, perhaps everyone in the party of high level could be scaled down to max 2 levels above the elder?
 
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Mutsie

Great Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
Mutsie, Undertow, Susurrus
Platform
PC
I think most of what i meant to share about the subject has been perfectly summarized in some of the posts above, I do very well understand and empathize with OP's point, but have seen it the other way around as well. Bringing a lower level alt to keep teh fights fun and interesting, and then was requested to bring the bigger toon, because they just wanted to get it over with.

Another suggestion though, to ease communication about expectation for elder fights a bit. Maybe making clear in your request for help, that you wish to fight with players at level, and not overleveled players. I am sure most people in this community will understand that. (Or indeed as suggested above, ask the high level player to bring a lower level alt if they can.)
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I would still like seeing a downscaling of players at things like Elders. Not when solohitting them, I often see single players just whack down every elder in the game in a row for fun, and it would take out the kick of killing an elder alone for the first time, when you leveled a bit above them.
But as soon a party approaches an elder, perhaps everyone in the party of high level could be scaled down to max 2 levels above the elder?
I know if they scaled like the event zones you can click on the scaling tab to reverse the scaling, so for those who don't care to be scaled this could easily be remedied.
 
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Karma

BRA Member
Characters
Instant Karma, Boot II
Platform
Steam
If you are in the 40-50 level, ask for help from other 40-50 levels, then the higher levels won't bother coming to help.
IMO, its not a matter of the community or game mechanics, its a matter of communications.
Just be clear in your announcement what sort of help you are seeking.

Many players ask for "help" when what they really want is someone higher level to kill the elder so they can move on quickly to the next quest or zone etc.
Many, perhaps most of the higher level regulars, are quick to recognize this type of player. (and those that seem to abuse the game mechanics)
IMO, they are also quick to stop helping this type of player.
The key word for them is "help", not "do".

Just my opinion.
Regards
 

Jamay

Squirrel
Characters
Jamayra, Jamaya & Mayjam
Platform
iOS, PC
I would still like seeing a downscaling of players at things like Elders. Not when solohitting them, I often see single players just whack down every elder in the game in a row for fun, and it would take out the kick of killing an elder alone for the first time, when you leveled a bit above them.
But as soon a party approaches an elder, perhaps everyone in the party of high level could be scaled down to max 2 levels above the elder?
I know if they scaled like the event zones you can click on the scaling tab to reverse the scaling, so for those who don't care to be scaled this could easily be remedied.
That could be a great solution.
 

Kitty the Hunter

Huntress
Platform
PC
Rather than changing the game to suit your style of play, why not make friends and run in groups of players who feel as you do? In my opinion, when a member of your group decides to invite a higher level player to help that is a conflict between you and the person in your group and not the higher leveled player who is offering to help.
 

Panthera

Grand Priestess
Platform
Android, PC, Steam
another thing is' maybe request that the higher level player to step in "only of needed" or use only "auto combat" or "Heal and shield" only. Communication is the key. Now that I am a higher level player I often dont know if the person I am helping wants a "quick kill' or would prefer that I just keep them alive (heal and shield). I know I want to help but I dont want kill the elder for them. I can guarantee you that there are times you will welcome having a few level cap players with you when fighting (particularly as you get into the pyrron zones and above). I also in the past have welcomed a higher level player helping me with elders because they were the only one that responded. None of the elders except the 10's are supposed to be soloable at level and I have found it hard to get at level players to help me at times.
 
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Jamay

Squirrel
Characters
Jamayra, Jamaya & Mayjam
Platform
iOS, PC
Last edited
Rather than changing the game to suit your style of play, why not make friends and run in groups of players who feel as you do? In my opinion, when a member of your group decides to invite a higher level player to help that is a conflict between you and the person in your group and not the higher leveled player who is offering to help.
I don’t think you read me well. That was never the problem. I won’t write again everything I already wrote:-(. That is not what is happening. What happens is higher lvl too fast to help and very hard for most to say no. It’s not really my style of play the problem. Wanting to fight in group in a mmo is normal^^ and seen in all mmos. And there is a reason for that. Maybe something to think about.. that’s all. Idk the exact solution for this game, but many offered nice views. Thx for that
 

Jamay

Squirrel
Characters
Jamayra, Jamaya & Mayjam
Platform
iOS, PC
another thing is' maybe request that the higher level player to step in "only of needed" or use only "auto combat" or "Heal and shield" only. Communication is the key. Now that I am a higher level player I often dont know if the person I am helping wants a "quick kill' or would prefer that I just keep them alive (heal and shield). I know I want to help but I dont want kill the elder for them. I can guarantee you that there are times you will welcome having a few level cap players with you when fighting (particularly as you get into the pyrron zones and above). I also in the past have welcomed a higher level player helping me with elders because they were the only one that responded. None of the elders except the 10's are supposed to be soloable at level and I have found it hard to get at level players to help me at times.
I never said never help;-). I even specified that. I also said that I will too need help ... and that my post should not be read as not liking the help. Still there is a problem at low lvl to find a team. At least before lvl 45 (can’t talk for higher than that) and by helping right away as soon as someone needs help does not help others find a team:). Of course, for the rest, playing with many different players is really nice.
 

Kitty the Hunter

Huntress
Platform
PC
I don’t think you read me well. That was never the problem. I won’t write again everything I already wrote:-(. That is not what is happening. What happens is higher lvl too fast to help and very hard for most to say no. It’s not really my style of play the problem. Wanting to fight in group in a mmo is normal^^ and seen in all mmos. And there is a reason for that. Maybe something to think about.. that’s all. Idk the exact solution for this game, but many offered nice views. Thx for that
I am not sure how these higher level players know you need help without you asking or it, (or someone in your group). so how are they too fast to help? After reading over your original post I am still left with the impression that you want something to change about how help is offered, or who is able to help. Honestly, it is not very clear what your actual intentions are but since most of your post and even the title of this thread is about higher level players helping you and how this can be a distraction from your optimal game experience (my words not yours because I have to paraphrase). It seems that you want changes to how players can or will help each other in order for you to better enjoy the game personally.
 

SprigOfHalcyon

Master Farmer
Platform
Android, PC
I would really like the ability to automatically level scale to the zone you are in somehow. When leveling, I waaaay out-level the quests I'm on. One issue I'd see with the current scaling is that it seems like it's only related to your class level (and not your item levels), (so an a lvl 90 with a lvl 81 legendary weapon is worse in the dungeon than a level 81 with that same legendary weapon), so that could mess things up if you are questing along and you have (let's say) level 20 items, but you're lvl 25 (and doing lvl 20 quests).

So, dunno how they'd implement it, but I'm onboard!
 
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Littlenymph

Squirrel
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
PC, Steam
I would love to see some zones and instances [like Elders] that leveled characters DOWN. Once you out-level a zone or instance, it takes a lot of the fun out of doing it again. It would also keep instances like Elder fights on the difficult side... as they should be.
 
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