Retromastery

Adventurer
Characters
Retromastery
Platform
PC
It's so... weird to see a game doing this well population-wise and yet not hearing a damn thing about it on the internet or even on Youtube or Twitch, I'm so accustomed to see games thrive only because of their marketing campaign that I forgot that these kind of cases could happen... so many Online Games die because they weren't "popular" enough and yet here is sitting V&H... doing very well despite it being virtually unknown by the general public...

I just wish more games could have this kind of chance... not being deprived of a well deserved success because their marketing just wasn't "flashy enough"
 

Arjuna

Grand Priest
Characters
Arjuna
Platform
Android
That being said, I think V&H could do better marketing, especially from crowd source and user generated content (like YouTube and blogs).

Perhaps do monthly crown exchanges for user generated content to encourage it more.

More players = more money, more money = larger developer team, larger team = more content & more often for us.
 

Chiarale

Bog Frog
Royal Guardian
Characters
Chiarale
Platform
iOS, PC
I envy those companies with bigger marketing departments than the whole of Mad Otter. And yet they get huge influxes of players, but how many stay? How many, after a short period, are off chasing the next shiny thing?

In contrast, Villagers & Heroes has players who are going on nine years. Certainly, I think we could use some means to drive more traffic here. Though perhaps V&H might not do as well if trying to use the traditional methods used by most other games.
 
Reactions: Zazie
  • Likex1

Retromastery

Adventurer
Characters
Retromastery
Platform
PC
That being said, I think V&H could do better marketing, especially from crowd source and user generated content (like YouTube and blogs).

Perhaps do monthly crown exchanges for user generated content to encourage it more.

More players = more money, more money = larger developer team, larger team = more content & more often for us.
Oh definitely ! but unfortunately Marketing cost a shit-load of money and you need to do it RIGHT because it needs to attract enough true players to cover the costs, I would recommend them to pick someone who is qualified to do Marketing if they decide to go on a more traditional route, but imo the best way they could do it is sponsering Youtubers and Twitch streamers who are known to like these kind of games, hell, even mobile Youtubers and Streamers would be a GREAT move since this game really is a true MMORPG on both Mobile and PC, just this fact is a selling point for them, "Villagers and Heroes, a TRUE MMORPG available on mobile and PC"
 

RuneFox

Merchant
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
As a business I can see the desire to want to have a larger and steadily revolving player base as you want to make profit. But at the same time with that it would destroy what this game has by adding, griefers, edgy kids(who just want to watch the world burn), and Gold sellers. I think it would do more harm than good which sucks because The Dev's deserve success for all their hard work. The sad thing is the more exposure this place gets the more it opens it'self up to the horrible people out there on the internet who take pleasure in destroying places like V&H just because they can.

It's quite a dilemma when you think about it. Should they put profits over their players and push to appeal to the new generation of gamer's who want everything now and if they don't get they take to social media and slander the game into obscurity? or do they stick with their dedicated player base who are made up of older gamer's? The ones who have shown they can wait years for new updates and content as long as they are given a home that is free of the harassment modern MMO's are plagued with?
 

Retromastery

Adventurer
Characters
Retromastery
Platform
PC
Last edited
As a business I can see the desire to want to have a larger and steadily revolving player base as you want to make profit. But at the same time with that it would destroy what this game has by adding, griefers, edgy kids(who just want to watch the world burn), and Gold sellers. I think it would do more harm than good which sucks because The Dev's deserve success for all their hard work. The sad thing is the more exposure this place gets the more it opens it'self up to the horrible people out there on the internet who take pleasure in destroying places like V&H just because they can.

It's quite a dilemma when you think about it. Should they put profits over their players and push to appeal to the new generation of gamer's who want everything now and if they don't get they take to social media and slander the game into obscurity? or do they stick with their dedicated player base who are made up of older gamer's? The ones who have shown they can wait years for new updates and content as long as they are given a home that is free of the harassment modern MMO's are plagued with?
this is definitely one hell of a dilemma... didn't think about this one

I would definitely take the more niche and nice crowd we have now rather than having the toxic mass to be honest, the main reason why this game has such a nice community and is still very much played to this day is because of how dedicated their current fanbase it, I think they should definitely cater to their current crowd because this is the kind of players that make this game great, sure it's not growing at a ridiculously rapid rate, but it still does, just more slowly, we don't get the mass, we get dedicated players that are proper gamers.

Edit: Wow ok, I didn't notice before but the new expansion that they announced this month made into some MMO news website like MMOBombs, MMOHuts and MMO's.com, that's really nice to see the game gets some more visibility naturally like that and websites like these actually acknowledging it's existence more and more. The game really is IS growing.
 

Zar

Great Adventurer
Characters
Zarola, North
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
this is definitely one hell of a dilemma... didn't think about this one

I would definitely take the more niche and nice crowd we have now rather than having the toxic mass to be honest, the main reason why this game has such a nice community and is still very much played to this day is because of how dedicated their current fanbase it, I think they should definitely cater to their current crowd because this is the kind of players that make this game great, sure it's not growing at a ridiculously rapid rate, but it still does, just more slowly, we don't get the mass, we get dedicated players that are proper gamers.

Edit: Wow ok, I didn't notice before but the new expansion that they announced this month made into some MMO news website like MMOBombs, MMOHuts and MMO's.com, that's really nice to see the game gets some more visibility naturally like that and websites like these actually acknowledging it's existence more and more. The game really is IS growing.
I don't remember which one exactually but it was actually one of these gaming websites (MMOBombs, MMOHuts, MMO or MMORPG's.com) that I actually found This game about 5 and a half years ago. Everytime there is a new expansion, websites like these advertise the game and it helps pick up the right amount of attraction. If you get to much attraction then it starts bringing in the wrong crowd and then inturns gives the game a bad review which actually hurts the game.
 

Retromastery

Adventurer
Characters
Retromastery
Platform
PC
Last edited
I don't remember which one exactually but it was actually one of these gaming websites (MMOBombs, MMOHuts and MMO's.com) that I actually found This game about 5 and a half years ago. Everytime there is a new expansion, websites like these advertise the game and it helps pick up the right amount of attraction. If you get to much attraction then it starts bringing in the wrong crowd and then inturns gives the game a bad review which actually hurts the game.
I couldn't agree more with you my friend ! that's how Warframe got popular too, natural increase in visibility through websites like these and mouth to ear advertisement, this game could become really big if it keep this pace up !

Edit: we are like an underground community, the mass might not know about us and our game, but it doesn't change the fact that we STILL exist and are a fairly large number, 20k+ if I recall correctly, (it was written on the Mad Otter Games website btw, these number dates all the way back on 2017 I believe) like my friends said to me the other day: a HUGE population doesn't necessarily make an MMO good or better than other game in the genre, and this game is a proof of that imo
 
Reactions: Jurksch
  • Likex1

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
That being said, I think V&H could do better marketing, especially from crowd source and user generated content (like YouTube and blogs).
There have been a few Twitch livestreams by players over the past year or so. There had been a player on US2 who was streaming as they played V&H. (I think they might still be playing, but I have no idea whether they're still streaming.) More famously, there was a Twitch livestreamer on US3, right after that server launched last February. They had a large following before they found V&H, and they helped bring some attention to the game, but I don't believe that many (if any) of that community is still playing. (After about a month or two, the Twitcher became unhappy about one thing or another relating to V&H and stopped streaming. It might have been the mobile UI or controls, or maybe their vision of the game's future was different than the devs, or maybe they wanted more updates more often....Who knows??) At any rate, when the Twitch livestreamer stopped playing, so did all their followers, as far as I am aware. It was a brief rise in the game's population, but it probably would have happened anyway, since it was right after the ios launch.

As far as YouTube videos goes, I think that the majority of the player-generated V&H YouTube videos out there were created for a series of Community Challenges shortly before the ios launch last year. And most of those videos were tutorials teaching new players how to gnog. LOL (The challenge was to create and post a video on YouTube that taught new players how to do something specific in game, which is a great idea for V&H videos!) Some of these YouTube videos may come up more easily in YouTube searches than others. It probably depends party on the keywords and tags that the posters added to their video when they uploaded it.

I definitely feel that either more community-created YouTube videos and/or Twitch livestreams from existing players would help (especially if said media was created by players who hadn't just found the game, who had enough experience with the game and knowledge to share their experiences, and who weren't just temporarily playing V&H, until they found the next great game, and moved on.) As an example, look at the wonderful YouTube videos created by William Houhouin! They're short and sweet, and serve as great introductory videos.

Perhaps some more advanced beginner to intermediate videos would be helpful? I know there's at least one YouTube video out there somewhere showing a route through Drom. And there's another great video showing how to get up to the hidden platform in Spire. (I think that was created by either Moose or Tern. Can't quite remember who deserves credit for that, so I apologize!) Can't remember if there's also one for Tomb, but Creation Caves and Fungal would be other zones where a video showing a quick, efficient route would be helpful. (Note that these topics are NOT my forte!) LOL Or maybe someone could create some gear guide videos or intros to buffs and/or stats or specific subclasses. (I had created a few videos some time ago, but Wellspring made them pretty redundant, and after that experience, I haven't been chomping at the bit to go back and create new videos. First Starfall, then Wellspring...My personal inclination is to wait until after all of the upcoming changes with the Earth and Sea release have been revealed before I create any more how-to videos, which might quickly become outdated.) :)
 

SKAAVVEEK

Adventurer
Royal Guardian
Characters
See Signature
Platform
PC
I'd say that population doesn't matter so much as retention. The turnover rate of players is more important than drawing in additional players. So long as a game can keep their active population invested in the future of their product, then they can gradually expand without much worry. Attracting large crowds may be feasible short-turn, but in the long run it'll only hurt the business if these players don't stick around. New players are a limited commodity, and that well will eventually run dry - or at least the flood will thin to a trickle.

The best way to keep players around is to focus on community aspects. Players who form relationships with their friends and Guilds are more likely to remain in the game even after they have accomplished all of their individual character goals. Expanding upon villages, guilds, group content and social events will achieve this. Following that, transparency and regular content drops will keep the player-base engaged and the game fresh. In this industry games will rise and fall constantly. Players are always jumping to the "next best thing". So long as MO can stay true to their carving from the market share pie, and expand upon important aspects of the game, V&H will continue for another decade and more.
 

Retromastery

Adventurer
Characters
Retromastery
Platform
PC
I'd say that population doesn't matter so much as retention. The turnover rate of players is more important than drawing in additional players. So long as a game can keep their active population invested in the future of their product, then they can gradually expand without much worry. Attracting large crowds may be feasible short-turn, but in the long run it'll only hurt the business if these players don't stick around. New players are a limited commodity, and that well will eventually run dry - or at least the flood will thin to a trickle.

The best way to keep players around is to focus on community aspects. Players who form relationships with their friends and Guilds are more likely to remain in the game even after they have accomplished all of their individual character goals. Expanding upon villages, guilds, group content and social events will achieve this. Following that, transparency and regular content drops will keep the player-base engaged and the game fresh. In this industry games will rise and fall constantly. Players are always jumping to the "next best thing". So long as MO can stay true to their carving from the market share pie, and expand upon important aspects of the game, V&H will continue for another decade and more.
I just hope they expand their dev team if they need to put out more content more often or simply keep up, from what I know these guys are a team of only 6 people and for a game like V&H that could attract A LOT more players and could get A LOT bigger it would definitely help if they had a full fleshed dev team of at least 15+ people to help them fix bugs, glitches and put out more content faster
 
Reactions: Arjuna
  • Likex1

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
I just hope they expand their dev team if they need to put out more content more often or simply keep up, from what I know these guys are a team of only 6 people and for a game like V&H that could attract A LOT more players and could get A LOT bigger it would definitely help if they had a full fleshed dev team of at least 15+ people to help them fix bugs, glitches and put out more content faster
I think it's worth pointing out that if they had a staff that large, they would also need to have sufficient, steady income to the game that would allow them to support a staff of that size. Unless you're relying on unpaid interns, you need to keep in mind that employees won't work for free. (Not to mention that this is illegal.) It's a bit of a catch-22: Having more employees helps the game to grow more, but in order to have a larger staff, the game's profits need to be larger in the first place. Looking at it another way, you can ask the age-old question of which came first -- the chicken or the egg.
 
Reactions: Trayveg
  • Likex1

Retromastery

Adventurer
Characters
Retromastery
Platform
PC
I think it's worth pointing out that if they had a staff that large, they would also need to have sufficient, steady income to the game that would allow them to support a staff of that size. Unless you're relying on unpaid interns, you need to keep in mind that employees won't work for free. (Not to mention that this is illegal.) It's a bit of a catch-22: Having more employees helps the game to grow more, but in order to have a larger staff, the game's profits need to be larger in the first place. Looking at it another way, you can ask the age-old question of which came first -- the chicken or the egg.
True, the smaller their staff is, the less they need to keep developing the game and keep the lights on since there is only 6 people to share revenues with, if they feel comfortable with having a team of only 6 people then I'm all for it, as long as the game keeps getting updated and as long as it keeps growing I don't mind it at all
 

RuneFox

Merchant
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
Personally I think with the amount of staff they have and the long term player base (who im sure some have some skills in design) they should consider allowing players to create content for them in the form of mods. The engine they run off is not so complicated that they couldn't restrict some aspect of the building portion of it and allow players to design things. Then it could be voted on by the forums and then reviewed by the staff at their leisure and implemented into the game on monthly or quarterly updates. I mean they've already allowed certain players to create events and are supported by the staff when doing them. personally i see it as the next step. Would be pretty innovative of them to do something like that too.
 

Retromastery

Adventurer
Characters
Retromastery
Platform
PC
Personally I think with the amount of staff they have and the long term player base (who im sure some have some skills in design) they should consider allowing players to create content for them in the form of mods. The engine they run of is not so complicated that they could restrict the building portion of it and allow players to design things. Then it could be voted on by the forums and then reviewed by the staff at their leisure and implemented into the game on monthly or quarterly updates. I mean they've already allowed certain players to create events and are supported by the staff when doing them. personally i see it as the next step. Would be pretty innovative of them to do something like that too.
I would love to see this ! it would be the opportunity for the community to be an even more active part of development and it could allow it to show off and shine more, right now we are mostly secluded, there's a lot of us playing but we don't really go out there and show off our creative side, I think it could be a selling point for the game too, being able to design content for the game kinda like Warframe does with its Tennogen skins, which are community made skins that the devs sells in the game and give a cut to the creator.
 

Zar

Great Adventurer
Characters
Zarola, North
Platform
Android, PC
I just hope they expand their dev team if they need to put out more content more often or simply keep up, from what I know these guys are a team of only 6 people and for a game like V&H that could attract A LOT more players and could get A LOT bigger it would definitely help if they had a full fleshed dev team of at least 15+ people to help them fix bugs, glitches and put out more content faster
Having a larger dev team doesn't always help make the game better, I know of some big gaming companies that have games that are more buggy, worse lag, and more glitchy than V&H. That says a lot right there. I've played other games out there and V&H is still at the top of the list of how the game mechanics run.
 

Chiarale

Bog Frog
Royal Guardian
Characters
Chiarale
Platform
iOS, PC
At the current size, the Otters are like a family. They dine together, celebrate together; if I remember correctly, they have gone on vacations together. And rumor has it, the CEO and Lead Writer spend a fair bit of time together outside the office.
 
Characters
Caraldor / Loxana
Platform
iOS, PC
Personally I think with the amount of staff they have and the long term player base (who im sure some have some skills in design) they should consider allowing players to create content for them in the form of mods. The engine they run off is not so complicated that they couldn't restrict some aspect of the building portion of it and allow players to design things. Then it could be voted on by the forums and then reviewed by the staff at their leisure and implemented into the game on monthly or quarterly updates. I mean they've already allowed certain players to create events and are supported by the staff when doing them. personally i see it as the next step. Would be pretty innovative of them to do something like that too.
Reminds me of Never Winter Nights, you could easily make and share maps.
 
Reactions: RuneFox
  • Likex1

Sampai

Arch Wizard
Platform
iOS, PC
That being said, I think V&H could do better marketing, especially from crowd source and user generated content (like YouTube and blogs).

Perhaps do monthly crown exchanges for user generated content to encourage it more.

More players = more money, more money = larger developer team, larger team = more content & more often for us.
oh now this is a good idea. like a small in-game incentive to creat content on the game for those who already enjoy it. That way, only people who truly enjoy the game, and will have insider knowledge will be inclined to make it, and not have outside money-hungry people taking advantage of the system.

Something leads me to believe this would have the same issue as ultra rare zogs though.
 
Reactions: Arjuna
  • Likex1

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
At the current size, the Otters are like a family. They dine together, celebrate together; if I remember correctly, they have gone on vacations together. And rumor has it, the CEO and Lead Writer spend a fair bit of time together outside the office.
Yup. How common is it for any game to have fan art created to celebrate the wedding of a developer or two? And this close feeling of a community being like a family also rolls over to the player base. (I think it's a big part of the reason why the community is so friendly and welcoming.)

Regarding the occasional Otter family vacation or outing, if they were a larger company, it would be touted as a "corporate retreat," and it would be mandatory, not voluntary. It also speaks to their other mutual interests outside of the game and shows how well the devs work together. Since they're a smaller company, however, it's easier to mix work and play. (And aren't Otters well-known for their playful attitude?) :)
 
Top