Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Ok here we go again. After the update the update the lvl 85 elders have become much easier, even easier than before they're buffed at least 3 of them are. From the previous iteration where they're buffed I learn that its OK that they're "easy", but it shouldn't let us able to bypass the combat mechanics with brute force

Valax: right now it only deal around 50K-60K damage wiht 30% magic resist that make everyone including lvl 85's with mediocre gear can just avoid the ghost, not spawn the barrier, and survive the big blast. I think this is wrong, in my opinion that big blast should instantly kill everyone that's not in the shield no matter what, at the same time may be increase the charging time by like a half second so killing the ghost and getting in the shield easier to do in the midst of lag. Other than that the ghost seems to attack with pretty high damage now, that they can burst player with relatively bad defense pretty quickly

Belxur: This one is the one that's still too punishing. The boss itself is very easy but the zombie spawn are too troublesome, If you let them leave they deal really high damage, If you kill them they spawn ice on the floor that also deal high damage and slow, coupled with the lag they become really troublesome and we can't really do anything about that. I think the time between when the zombie is killed and the ice on the floor pop should be increased so avoiding the ice is more doable. The second idea is increase ice on the floor damage but reduce the amount of zombie spawned so it's more punishing to not dodge it, but at the same time we have more space to dodge it.

Gaamkira: The damage from the ward that shoot green beam, has become very low, only around 3k damage at 30% magic resist, that make us don't have to dodge it and just tank through it, increasing it damage a little should be find, may be around 10k with 0 magic resist should be okay.

Quilbach: even though the healer still do pretty high heal, but because the boss has become very weak you can just brute force him, without killing the healer. So may be increase the healer heal a bit more so it's much harder to brute force him without killing the healer.

I think those changes should make them more challenging but still viable to do with a group of 85's
 
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Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
Last edited
Yeah interesting update, everything is much easier which is nicer of course then it was but.. Making the blast not lethal doesn't make much sense considering that it is technically the one fight with a clear path to success if you stay in the circles. (When it works) I have had instances where the circle disappeared too quick, guess because the ghost was killed too quick. ..

But I would also keep in mind that the fight should be doable in my view with a full group of 85s, with no 90s.

What I don't quite understand is why they cannot find a good balance with scaling.
More players in dungeon should make things easier not harder. Should be the same thing with elder fights in my view. like for elders what if they had a min being 3 players before scaling begins. That means elders treat the fight as at least 3 players are in the fight (assumed 300% at least to start) even if you only have 2. However 4 players would begin the ease of difficulty. Where for example the multiplier takes a reduction of 30% per each player .,. so for 4 players it is only 70% tougher =370% , 5 players 440%. . 6, 510% and so on. But the issue is more players are less likely to have top end gear.. So make up for this by also adding a second reduction after that first 30% the next would be 32% then 34% all the way up to 100% if you have enough players, making very large groups destroy stuff, which is dare I say.. more realistic. This could be applied to dungeons, and instead of all the worry of messing up the toughness the attitude would be 'the more the merrier'. Bring people together is all i'm saying.
 

Tern

Adventurer
Characters
Wes, Inn, Hugh, Sis & Pat Tern
Platform
Android, PC
I just wanted to mention that 85 elders are required to continue the story. Some people who have work and family are limited on their time playing VaH. This means they have to hope to have enough high level players willing to help. I guess I am saying that, if they are kept easier, a player like the one I mentioned might have a chance to advance in the story with less players willing or available to help. If the elders are made more difficult, I hope a way is devised so that players who have trouble getting a group can continue without the elders or by visiting super easy elders (reflections?) who just advance the story and don't drop frags, and don't give xp or items.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
More players in dungeon should make things easier not harder.
Normally I think it actually is easier with more player IF all the player that participate have similar skill level. The problem is how big a difference of the damage each player can have, there is a thread that have discuss about that. So like if you have a party that have 10k dps average adding someone with around 10k dps too make it easier. But if you're a single high level helping a lot of lower level it make the number scaling very punishing. I hope the strength difference between each player could be trimmed down.

But I would also keep in mind that the fight should be doable in my view with a full group of 85s
Yeah that's what i want to, i suggest the idea by using my lvl 85 character without socket other then on weapon and 1 for elder garde on armor rune as reference which should be a reasonable build for lvl 85 characters.
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
Yeah I just think it's cool in games when you can feel the power of a larger group.. But maybe easier said then done with the way it's set up.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
I just wanted to mention that 85 elders are required to continue the story. Some people who have work and family are limited on their time playing VaH. This means they have to hope to have enough high level players willing to help. I guess I am saying that, if they are kept easier, a player like the one I mentioned might have a chance to advance in the story with less players willing or available to help. If the elders are made more difficult, I hope a way is devised so that players who have trouble getting a group can continue without the elders or by visiting super easy elders (reflections?) who just advance the story and don't drop frags, and don't give xp or items.
Yeah I still think that the only solution is instancing and choosing zone difficulty. it will be really cool because i believe it will satisfy both that want challenge and those that just want to chill.
 
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Allison Wonderland

Priestess
Royal Guardian
Platform
PC
I just wanted to mention that 85 elders are required to continue the story. Some people who have work and family are limited on their time playing VaH. This means they have to hope to have enough high level players willing to help. I guess I am saying that, if they are kept easier, a player like the one I mentioned might have a chance to advance in the story with less players willing or available to help. If the elders are made more difficult, I hope a way is devised so that players who have trouble getting a group can continue without the elders or by visiting super easy elders (reflections?) who just advance the story and don't drop frags, and don't give xp or items.
US3 host server wide elder runs on Monday night. Prior to the runs volunteers familiar with the elders are assigned to help with the different elders. Seems to work pretty good for people who do have commitments. When players need elders at other times normally if requesting help in world chat players will respond with elders under lv 70. :ROFLMAO: 75's- 85's would probably get a "delayed reply" :ROFLMAO:.
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
Instancing for elders? Honestly I think that is going in the wrong direction but whatever. There are barely any people playing this game and you want to further keep them separated.
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Instancing for elders? Honestly I think that is going in the wrong direction but whatever. There are barely any people playing this game and you want to further keep them separated.
I don't understand why it will keep them separated? Like when you want to do elder you talk at chat first and then decide where you want to go, how can choosing the difficulty make a difference?
 

Greenwich

Wizard
Platform
PC
Last edited
I don't understand why it will keep them separated? Like when you want to do elder you talk at chat first and then decide where you want to go, how can choosing the difficulty make a difference?
Choosing the difficulty is one thing, but is that really needed? What is the plan... increase experience rewards somehow with difficulty? There really is not many different rewards as it is right now for boss killing of any kind other than normal loot and experience... Better chance for elder fragments? Higher experience?(The higher experience would be a possibility I guess.. if the difficulty was meaningful)
But really and just my opinion.. seems like more work for the devs then is needed.

But a closed instance.. like in what Elder scrolls? If you don't get in with the group initially, you can't rejoin?
If I got 3 guys and I am starting the first 85 elder.. At that point are we locked into the instance where nobody else can join? Maybe I don't understand your definition of instancing..
If I ask for 3 more after we start I have to restart the instance? It just seems much more appropriate right now that they leave it open so anyone can join in, that kind of seems like their signature thing in my view anyway, which is to make it little more relaxed game where people can join together when they can and not feel even more distant from each other due to restrictions ... or instancing.

Another thing, when we talk about the traditional meaning of instancing as it exists in many other games, in my view it works better with a sandbox environment. This game is hardly a sandbox from where I am sitting. Extremely linear progression, only one way to the top and one single path to max level, and even with restrictions on what you can accomplish per day due to this red vs grey bounty idea, and crown shop speed and experience boosts from ardent and enhancements. This makes for a very linear path for progression, and honestly ridiculously controlled by devs.
I say give players at least one bit of satisfaction by allowing them to congregate together and smash an elder down to bits of they can get the numbers. They can make elders doable with 4 badies with maxed gear, 5 goodies, or 6 mediocre. Or 7 or 8 a bit under par. Or 12 terribly geared, But strength in numbers can make it happen. Afterall, what are the chances you will get the numbers right now it's not like we have 100s and 100s of players on our servers... I mean at prime time it can happen sometimes you can get the numbers to smash, but should it not?
 

Giruv

Merchant
Characters
Verrier
Platform
PC
Choosing the difficulty is one thing, but is that really needed?
i think so because there is very diverse opinion of some that looking for challenges want it hard and some that just want to progress thought don't enjoy it if it's hard
What is the plan... increase experience rewards somehow with difficulty?
That's what i think, high risk high reward, low risk low reward. I'm not sure yet how to distribute the reward between difficulty but that's the idea.
seems like more work for the devs then is needed.
agreed it is more work for the dev but i believe it will also reduce the burden that they have to rebalance them every few months.
But a closed instance.. like in what Elder scrolls? If you don't get in with the group initially, you can't rejoin?
my bad what i mean about instance kinda similar to village i guess...so when entering a zone you can choose like easy, medium, or hard and the zone stay there, you don't have to get in together with your party and other player can still join in the middle of the run

I say give players at least one bit of satisfaction by allowing them to congregate together and smash an elder down to bits of they can get the numbers.
Agreed. I prefer if something is hard because you have to have good teamwork not good gear. What i don't like on what the game have now is with good gear you don't really need teamwork. The one place that I enjoy and keep approaching the right direction is the Red Cloister dungeon because which each patch teamwork become more important there.
 
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