Poll: Do you want PvP in v&h?

  • Yes •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)

    Votes: 11 14.1%
  • No (┛ಠ_ಠ)┛彡┻━┻

    Votes: 61 78.2%
  • I don't care ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Votes: 6 7.7%
  • Total voters
    78

The Duke

Merchant
Characters
The Duke
Platform
PC
Unfortunately, merely saying something countless times doesn't actually make it true.

Strangely enough, given that as you have already pointed out, I need to grow up and apparently learn the English language (54 in rl, honours degree in Physics, 30 + years teaching and coached debating teams in eg the Oxford Union schools competition for over 15 years so actually quite familiar with the difference between arguing and debating) I actually understand perfectly almost all the points you have made. I just happen to disagree with most of them.

In particular, I disagree fundamentally with your view that you can introduce pvp into a pve game and have no effect (good or bad) on the players who already play the game, and who have no wish to be involved in pvp.
Your supposed credentials don't make your opinion anymore valid than the next persons though. Funny how that works, isn't it?
 
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Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
HAH. Did you even read and digest WHAT I made that comment to....or are you just trying to backhanded attack? I'll go with thinking you're backhanded attacking. In terms of pvp, bud, the list of negatives will ALWAYS outweigh the positives. However, I'll humor you.

As far as time for development, they've had plenty enough time to figure it out. I'm confident they could do so. Nerfs? Balancing issues? They haven't even got PVE balancing issues sorted out yet after all this time. (case in point-today's nerf on the Pharaoh boss and removal of the runes...). At best, this game is the likes of something that's in beta phase...(prove me wrong because even in tos it speaks that of a beta build, unfinished product, not to mention the constant push-back of patch releases) but, it's fun and addictive, and my better half and I enjoy it.

-More revenue for the cash shop for pvp specific items (as a person who has dropped more than 3k US dollars with the other half since US3 launch, we would most certainly buy in to this)
-More players thus generating more potential for sustained revenue
-More content for those that don't care to rebirth due to lack of end game and forced, recycled content ("rebirthing")
-More cosmetics in the shop for pvp'ers AND pve'ers(the ability to buy new aesthetics, which, would hopefully force the devs to stop using recycled gnog garbage and actually USE their talents because that otter designer is one talented young man whom is probably being held back creatively)

While I agree that there are A LOT of toxic pvpers, I would like to think that this community would be mature enough to handle it in a friendly manner. Also, I hope you can see the trend here with the cash shop because being an indy company, they need our support as a community.
And again rather than addressing what I say, all you do is hint that I didn't read carefully enough to understand your point.

Which pretty much proves mine.
 

IrishElf

Citizen
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Last edited
Again... the biggest reason why pvp won't fly here is the classes are not set up for pvp. Gear is not set up for pvp. The game itself is not set up for pvp.

And biggest reason, with the small dev team, there isn't time to make the changes that would be needed.

Not to mention there are MANY current players who do play games with PVP. Some are OK with it being added, some aren't. But needless to say, there are not enough hours in the day for a small company to add under the above circumstances.

But as I said before, IF pvp will be added, it will be as Mad Otter chooses. I trust them to add what they feel is beneficial to the game.
 
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Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Your supposed credentials don't make your opinion anymore valid than the next persons though. Funny how that works, isn't it?
Absolutely - but if you had looked back at the poster's reply to my previous post, you would see that the response was to tell me to grow up (hence the indication of my age) and to "explain" the difference between argument and debate or discussion, which apparently I am too stupid to understand (hence the reference to coaching debating).
 
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The Duke

Merchant
Characters
The Duke
Platform
PC
Absolutely - but if you had looked back at the poster's reply to my previous post, you would see that the response was to tell me to grow up (hence the indication of my age) and to "explain" the difference between argument and debate or discussion, which apparently I am too stupid to understand (hence the reference to coaching debating).
Yes, but, just because one implies you're "too stupid to understand" doesn't make it fact. I would think as a forum moderator, you shouldn't be engaging in such trivial actions...but, I could be wrong. I read your replies and have actually been following the thread because it's interesting.

I presented you with some things that could be beneficial to the game as a whole and am patiently awaiting a response, because, after all, your whole argument kinda just collapsed upon itself when you digressed so hard and made things between a poster and yourself personal. That said, I can appreciate your style, but, it doesn't speak of professionalism IMHO.
 
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Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
Unfortunately, merely saying something countless times doesn't actually make it true.
Unfortunately you are incorrect, unless you want to send me proof that somebody is somehow forcing you to participate in PvP if it were to be added.

As for me telling you to grow up your reply below pretty much explains itself but just in case...
"Choose a name with sexual overtones which is certainly inappropriate and which many consider downright offensive."

"Demand that the developers add what you want simply because you want it, and regardless of the fact that you admit that even you believe that the majority do not."
  1. You complained about my username, (which again is off-topic) but i'm sorry if I hurt your feelings and traumatically affected your real life because of my username.
  2. You said that I demanded change to the game, which was also not true. I would love for you to show me where I "demanded" in my suggestive post in the suggestions section of the forums
There are serious problems in the world (people getting bombed, not having enough food, etc.) and you choose to worry about a fake name in a video game online (which again was off-topic). This is why I said you should grow up, not to mention how unprofessional it looks as a forum moderator to try to start an argument with a player instead of discussing the topic at hand in a civil manner. Surely someone with your supposed credentials should be able to figure all this out.
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
Back on topic, in reply to this...
"So the minority who keep posting in favour of pvp without ever providing any concrete argument how it would actually improve the game"...
There have been plenty of solutions & suggestions as to how PvP could be implemented into the game while improving it. You either did not see the posts, or chose to ignore them.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Yes, but, just because one implies you're "too stupid to understand" doesn't make it fact. I would think as a forum moderator, you shouldn't be engaging in such trivial actions...but, I could be wrong. I read your replies and have actually been following the thread because it's interesting.

I presented you with some things that could be beneficial to the game as a whole and am patiently awaiting a response, because, after all, your whole argument kinda just collapsed upon itself when you digressed so hard and made things between a poster and yourself personal. That said, I can appreciate your style, but, it doesn't speak of professionalism IMHO.
Ok, to give my opinion in response to your points.

First of all, you seem to dismiss the entire counter argument against pvp that it would require a great deal of balancing and potential nerfs of classes by arguing that the pve element isn't even balanced. I confess I don't entirely understand this argument - if the balance isn't even right at present for pve, how could adding further balancing requirements for pvp at this stage possibly help the situation?

You then give 4 advantages that pvp would bring - the first of which is increased revenue. Unless what you are suggesting is a form of pay to win pvp, or worse stil pay to play, which I can hardly consider advantageous in any shape or form, I fail to see why pvp would in and of itself increase revenue. Please give reasons why you believe this to be so. Without evidence, this is simply an assertion, not a valid argument.

The second point, more players, I have addressed several times before. This is a frequently made assertion on behalf of pvp, but I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence to back it up. On the contrary, all evidence seems to indicate the opposite. I hesitate to simply regurgitate what I have posted elsewhere, so will content myself with just one example here just now, which is Tera (a so called pvp game I might add) which until recently had 3 European PVE servers and one PVP server. They have just "merged" two of these servers leaving 3 servers, all PVE. Why would they close (in practice) their PVP server whilst maintaining all three PVE ones if PVP were the generator of such enormous numbers of players?

The point of more content is one I would grant is always attractive, but I question whether those who choose not to do rebirth (which requires you to repeat combat progress but not crafting) would be significantly attracted by pvp related content. Surely these players would be much more attracted to another suggestion which is housing? To those who love combat (and I seriously question how many pvp players don't like combat) rebirth really isn't that big an obstacle. That said, I do recognise the argument that combat against npcs only can become a bit stale, so yes, I imagine there are a few players who would enjoy pvp as a form of end content. My point however, is that in this game Ibelieve that number to be a very small proportion, as the results of the poll thus far seem to indicate.

Your final point, more cosmetics, I simply don't consider relevant to the argument at all. Why would adding pvp result in more cosmetics? Please explain to me why adding pvp has anything to do with whether or not the Devs are able to devote time to designing and adding new cosmetics, since I simply do not see any connection. If anything I would have thought the afore mentioned issues of balancing etc would reduce the time available.

Note these are as stated simply my opinions in answer to your points. Your opinion is of course as valid as mine, however you asked me to address your points so I have attempted to do so.
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
There’s 18373938 mmos out there with pvp. You either did not see them or choose to ignore them

Just very tired of this
I am also very tired of you repeating yourself by reposting the same comment over and over.

Nobody is forcing you to read and reply to the thread.

Yes there are plenty of other MMOs with PvP, however I obviously enjoy the mechanics of this game as do others, which is why we want to see PvP added.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I agree there have been many suggestions about how to ADD pvp to the game.

I have yet to see one provide any evidence as to how this would IMPROVE the game.

Essentially this entire thread, and all the others like it can be summed up very simply.

Some people like pvp.

Some people don't.

In this game, the ones who don't outnumber the ones who do.

For some reason the ones who like pvp can't accept this simple fact.
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
I agree there have been many suggestions about how to ADD pvp to the game.

I have yet to see one provide any evidence as to how this would IMPROVE the game.

Essentially this entire thread, and all the others like it can be summed up very simply.

Some people like pvp.

Some people don't.

In this game, the ones who don't outnumber the ones who do.

For some reason the ones who don't can't accept this simple fact.
I have stated that there are more people that are against it vs for it. So I'm not sure where you are getting at with that comment.

But just because that's true why should we not be able to have an opinion on something we want to see added just because you don't want it?

And myself and others have explained how it could benefit the game. Adding PvP itself would draw more players in. I don't have proof because I don't think anyone cares enough to write an article on it, however when I get home if you would like me to link you all the forums I have read that PvP is a must in mmorpgs to appease both crowds and help the longevity of the game then I will.

I also have yet to receive evidence as to how PvP would bring in "toxic" players or turn the community "toxic".
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
I have stated that there are more people that are against it vs for it. So I'm not sure where you are getting at with that comment.

But just because that's true why should we not be able to have an opinion on something we want to see added just because you don't want it?

And myself and others have explained how it could benefit the game. Adding PvP itself would draw more players in. I don't have proof because I don't think anyone cares enough to write an article on it, however when I get home if you would like me to link you all the forums I have read that PvP is a must in mmorpgs to appease both crowds and help the longevity of the game then I will.

I also have yet to receive evidence as to how PvP would bring in "toxic" players or turn the community "toxic".
You have every right to an opinion. Neither I nor anyone else has ever denied your right to an opinion. You on the other hand have consistently derided every one whose opinion differs from yours.

I have provided evidence, gathered from several sources, that strongly suggests that pvp does NOT bring in more players, quite the contrary. I have no doubt that you can provide forums posts such as you suggest, but is that not perhaps because you yourself clearly enjoy pvp and presumably frequent forums made up of players of a similar mindset to yourself? Obviously players who love pvp will be of the opinion that it is a must for a successful MMO, but that doesn't mean everyone,or even a majority of players feel that way. Please note I am not suggesting that your evidence is not valid, simply that it only represents a somewhat selective group of MMO players - specifically players who enjoy pvp and frequent the particular forums you quote. (and I'm not claiming this forum is indicative of all gamers either, far from it, but if your evidence was based on this forum, would you not conclude that pvp is actually extremely unpopular?)

On the last point, as I have posted elsewhere, I actually agree with you. I have not seen any evidence that pvp necessairly brings in toxic players or increase toxicity. Sadly, I suspect the reality is simply having more players brings more toxic ones.
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
You have every right to an opinion. Neither I nor anyone else has ever denied your right to an opinion. You on the other hand have consistently derided every one whose opinion differs from yours.
Please show me where I have done this because I would love to see it. In PvP discussions some people have given opinions or reasons as to why they do not want to see it in the game and I reply with what I believe are solutions to the problems they listed or my opinion on their response and PvP in general.

I would also love to see where there is hard evidence that suggests PvP does not bring in more players as you stated.
 

Neliora

Wizard
Platform
Android, PC
Last edited
It's confusing how the OP said this is a poll, yet there's 4 pages of back and forth on trying to dissuade the voters. The majority don't want PVP. The rest is just details :) If this game feels like it's in "beta" for you, fortunately there are many other games out there to perhaps meet your needs. Those of us that are here, happy, and love this game as it is already shouldn't have to explain ourselves.

*edited for improper grammar lol
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
Last edited
It's confusing how the OP said this is a poll, yet there's 4 pages of back and forth on trying to dissuade the voters. The majority don't want PVP. The rest is just details :) If this game feels like it's in "beta" for you, fortunately there are many other games out there to perhaps meet your needs. Those of us that are here, happy, and love this game as it is already shouldn't have to explain ourselves.

*edited for improper grammar lol
Ah welcome back I missed you :)

I agree with you it's very interesting how I created a poll for discussion on PvP and you fire away on every post and still continue to go off topic. Ironic huh?

I wish it wasn't so hard for you to stay on topic, every time you comment a thread gets closed. Here goes another, it's only a matter of time :/
 
Characters
Tiffa, CyberElf
Platform
Android, PC
This will be my last post on this Topic, because it is getting out of hand between some members, who are just showing how very childish they are.

There are plenty of ways to add some FRIENDLY COMPENTISION to the game that is not the True PVP Dueling that is most peoples idea PVP.
PVP stands for Player Verse Player, so any form of challanging contest is a form of this, such as: The Shaman Chalange started by Sarah Otter, The Fan Friday Art Contest Events (win Real Crowns), Trivia contest (just for fun but a lot of US3 player love it), who can contribute the most to Village projects, and any other fun contest made between any 2 or more players. We have all of these PVP contest already in the game so having a few more official Contest or games added is no big deal and would not change the community. Even adding a new dueling arena could be added and made to be fun and silly (like hitting each other with rubber chickens (fruit, veggies, stuffed animals, etc...) while running an obstical course to win a prize could be fun to a lot of players.
So keep your mind open and suggest some forms of contest to add to the game, this may help keep more players who come into the game.

P.S. Everyone on both sides get off your Dang High Horses and Pulpets and try to think outside of your close minded concepts of PVP and try to get along. The Devs have said that they have not made a decision on adding or not adding PVP to the game, but said they would consider it if they could find a way of adding it that would be right for the community as a Whole.
 
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Felonius

Citizen
Royal Guardian
Characters
Felonius & Aldanon
Platform
PC
Most of the people who play this game regularly was attracted to the game specifically because it's not PvP and continue playing because of that. Continuing to badger us that YOU think the game would be better with it and not giving any proof other than your opinion will not change that. Just as us saying that it would be detrimental will not change yours. Insulting someone and then acting offended when they insult you back will not change someone's mind either. That is just bringing about a trollish environment to the forum that we have tried to keep out of the game, and thankfully pretty successfully, at least on my server. From my experience playing other multiplayer games PvP brings out the trollish behavior in people, and even trying to discuss it in here is bringing it out. This discussion is bringing us to no conclusion and I think the subject should just be dropped since there is no obvious solution. All we are doing is acting like a bunch of immature little kids insulting each other with no real productive discussion.
 

Arjuna

Grand Priest
Characters
Arjuna
Platform
Android
This discussion is bringing us to no conclusion
But it has brought us to a conclusion. The results of the poll are that conclusion!

This insistence on this topic over and over and over again despite most of the feedback is kinda trollish though, huh?

Screenshot_20190905-125111_Chrome.jpg
 
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