Arjuna

Grand Priest
Characters
Arjuna
Platform
Android
#41
In my view, elder runs and event zones shouldn't be more than of average difficulty
That was a very long winded post that basically says "I would like high level content for snowflakes, who oppose maxing their toons."

So many of us have been asking for challenging content, and that post seems to ask for laughable, fluffy dungeons :ROFLMAO:
 
Platform
PC
#42
That was a very long winded post that basically says "I would like high level content for snowflakes, who oppose maxing their toons."

So many of us have been asking for challenging content, and that post seems to ask for laughable, fluffy dungeons :ROFLMAO:
Not sure if anyone wants fluffy dungeons but I do know as soon as challenging content comes out it is opposed and adjusted because the majority of the players seem to want achievable content. I will wait until I run these elders before making any definite complaints but I do have a few in mind already.
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
#43
If the dungeons ARE solo content, I also really wonder about how class balancing will work. In a timed solo elder run, it seems to me that squishy dps toons will be far more likely to use large amounts of instant resurrects, whereas toons built for higher amounts of defense and health will struggle more to complete the run before the timer expires, because their main purpose is to build their lightning warrior to be a tank, not a speedy killing machine. And implications from an attempt to balance the classes for this one situation could easily impact how each class performs elsewhere in the game.

Along these same lines, yeah, some people are asking for more solo content, and they complain about trying to find groups for elders. However, when all the classes are designed to compliment each other for challenging group content, and what ordinarily would be group content becomes solo content instead....Well, you end up losing some of the appeal of group combat, and the overall content of the game also becomes imbalanced, leaning even more heavily towards solo play than it currently does. But on the other hand, I can see how the necessity for good crafted gear, combat buffs, sockets, and instant resurrects might help to stimulate the in-game economy. There are pros and cons on both sides of the coin.

And as a side note, generally speaking, the only players whom I see asking for additional ever-more-challenging content are those players who already love the dungeons and can't get enough of them! I'm beginning to be reminded of the division in the community over the pvp question -- When it comes to challenging high-level elder fights, there are those players for whom no challenge is too large, and these players often also suggest that all elder fights should be level-scaled, if not every other zone in game, too! Everyone else seems to be fine with the existing amount of challenge at high level elder fights.

I can foresee that in order to "be competitive" in the dungeons, at the lvl 95 elders, and while retaining the ability to solo, players will need to have THREE different sets of gear! Which strikes me as excessive...not to mention the cost of routinely resetting your talent points. (As it currently stands, most of the serious "dungeon crew" already keep one weapon for dungeons and one for everything else.) Players will need to store both class token feats in their bags at all times, with a new token every 5 levels -- One with the subclass booster rune for solo play and the other aggro-reduction one for group content.

P.S. I readily (and proudly!) admit to being long-winded, as I enjoy "talking things through" and feel that open discussion tends to lead to productive results. However, I'm quite happy that I choose not to insult other people or try to instigate an argument, simply because they disagree with my opinions. So, enough of the snowflake talk, please.
 

Arjuna

Grand Priest
Characters
Arjuna
Platform
Android
#44
enough of the snowflake tal
❄️❄️❄️
If I see a post whose wording seems to advocate a game for spineless, chump toons, then I can call it out as such. I was careful to differentiate my comment towards the post vs the postee.

I look forward to an aspect of the game that requires grit, determination, and yes frustration too. "Mediocre" is a word that comes to mind when everyone receives participation trophies.
 
Characters
Lady Amalthea, Nyateneri
Platform
PC
#45
I also wonder if the 95 elder dungeons ar solo content or not, although I have the tendency to think they are not. The wording of the text is really ambiguous. But up till now all elder runs always were group content.
However, given that 95 is the level cap then, the elder runs are kind of end content at this point. You don't really need the 95 level fragments as long as there are no higer elders than 95 in the game. You always fight the elders with the fragments from the lower level elders. This seems to be again one of the cases where the devs make parts of the game harder to keep people busy and to have challenging content and as soon as the level cap is raised they change it to "normal". It happened quite often in the past.
 
Likes: Ru Ru

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
#46
I think assuming the new elders will be timed, or solo, is reading too much into what is said on the website.

All that is said is that the elders will be part of a dungeon type environment - but dungeons do not have to be timed, there are other ways to signify "completing" a dungeon.
On the solo front, it merely says that there will be no scaling of the dungeon, ie you will not be boosted up to match the elders it will be "just you" against these powerful enemies. In this context, it merely means that it will be your character, with the same level of skills and gear that you normally have, not scaled up to match the dungeon and elders.
 
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
#47
I think assuming the new elders will be timed, or solo, is reading too much into what is said on the website.

All that is said is that the elders will be part of a dungeon type environment - but dungeons do not have to be timed, there are other ways to signify "completing" a dungeon.
On the solo front, it merely says that there will be no scaling of the dungeon, ie you will not be boosted up to match the elders it will be "just you" against these powerful enemies. In this context, it merely means that it will be your character, with the same level of skills and gear that you normally have, not scaled up to match the dungeon and elders.
I'd like: "Here lies our dear friend and enemy Ekimie. Born 2015, died first try in the new dungeon" on my headstone. Just saying....
 
Platform
PC
#48
And as a side note, generally speaking, the only players whom I see asking for additional ever-more-challenging content are those players who already love the dungeons and can't get enough of them! I'm beginning to be reminded of the division in the community over the pvp question -- When it comes to challenging high-level elder fights, there are those players for whom no challenge is too large, and these players often also suggest that all elder fights should be level-scaled, if not every other zone in game, too! Everyone else seems to be fine with the existing amount of challenge at high level elder fights.

I can foresee that in order to "be competitive" in the dungeons, at the lvl 95 elders, and while retaining the ability to solo, players will need to have THREE different sets of gear! Which strikes me as excessive...not to mention the cost of routinely resetting your talent points. (As it currently stands, most of the serious "dungeon crew" already keep one weapon for dungeons and one for everything else.) Players will need to store both class token feats in their bags at all times, with a new token every 5 levels -- One with the subclass booster rune for solo play and the other aggro-reduction one for group content.
I think that scaling all the elders is an interesting concept. As it stands, a lvl 30 will ask for help with elders - a lvl 90 shows up - 2 shots and it's done. It would be nice to show low lvl players the challenge that elders are supposed to be. That said, I will admit that it IS nice to just wallop elders and get out.

I've known people who use different gears for different scenarios. I've tried to be one of those people, but it doesn't work for me. Been playing 8 years - and only use one set of gear. This doesn't stop people for asking for my assistance for ANY type of run (regular zone run, elder run, dungeon run, end game run). My 'services' have ALWAYS been highly requested for all types of scenarios. So saying that multiple sets of gear would or could be 'required' is simply not true.

*caveat* - at high lvls, my gear IS fully socketed, but I don't see this as an issue for anyone - if you save sockets at lower lvls, you'll have them (to spare) at high lvls - they are much more accessible than they used to be.
 
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
#50
From the beginning of the time when they started putting the elders into the game and then each time something new and hard was added, it was always those same "elite or capped" players who would venture into the new/hard/group zones to try them out. When we got The Rift it was extremely hard but the same groups of "elite" who kept going at it over and over until they defeated all. Then they went back to help others who needed the zone to get the items they needed. Even today, when people call out for help with elders, it is those "elites" who show up to help.

So I would venture to say the "elites" is not a negative but more a badge of honor, they are the top players who not only love the game but are first in line to help others to get ahead. And they are a part of what makes the game so awesome to play!
 

Zazie

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Zazie, Shiny, Skip, Auntie
Platform
PC
#51
From the beginning of the time when they started putting the elders into the game and then each time something new and hard was added, it was always those same "elite or capped" players who would venture into the new/hard/group zones to try them out. When we got The Rift it was extremely hard but the same groups of "elite" who kept going at it over and over until they defeated all. Then they went back to help others who needed the zone to get the items they needed. Even today, when people call out for help with elders, it is those "elites" who show up to help.

So I would venture to say the "elites" is not a negative but more a badge of honor, they are the top players who not only love the game but are first in line to help others to get ahead. And they are a part of what makes the game so awesome to play!
I wholeheartedly agree that these forerunners are awesome! When the Wiki has yet to be updated immediately after a new patch, they're the players who not only have the answers, but who spend a lot of their play time unselfishly guiding players through new quests and zones. Yet even they need to draw the line somewhere. When during the course of a day, shortly after new elders have been added to the game, I sometimes see the same individuals helping with the same new tier of elders not just once or even twice, but three or four times per day??? That's just insanity, and while I understand that different play schedules mean that people sometimes miss an elder run by that much, I don't think it's healthy when you ONLY see the same group of people helping all the time, just because they happen to be logged in when all those runs are occurring. Sometimes, you just need to wait a day or two to get your elder run completed. :)

It has a trickle-down effect when you always see the same names popping up in elder kill credits, hour after hour, day after day. There are a lot more players who are able to help with elder kills than you would think there are, if you're only looking at those pop-ups! -- Newer players should be encouraged to begin helping early on. As soon as they're able is ideal. If they're around lvl 40-50, they can easily help out with lvl 20 and 30 elders. However, they can begin contributing to the Wiki and creating video tutorials and player-written guides at any point! Maybe they won't be able to create a complete guide to the nature hunter early on, but they could create a discussion thread on the forums about this subclass, asking questions in it and discussing build, stats, and gear issues with other nature hunters. And all of this discussion could eventually be turned into a helpful guide that new players seem to request often. (Why should it have to be a capped player or one of the "elites" who creates guides like this???) Newer players shouldn't simply be referred to the forums and Wiki, but should also be encouraged to interact with and contribute to those resources, as their knowledge of the game increases. I've had former guildies tell me that because they had been helped out early on by other players, they wanted to help others when they became high level, too. Yet they either quit playing before they got to level cap or they simply changed their mind entirely about wanting to help other players! Getting newer players to "buy into" the ideology of the helpful V&H community has long-lasting effects, and I feel also helps to prevent some of the elitism that can happen to people at the later stages of the game.

I see a difference between your ordinary strong capped player and an elite. It's all in the change in attitude, high egotism, and selfishness. You see, not all capped players are "elites." (As a matter of fact, the majority of them are not "elites", no matter how many elder levels they may have!) However, I can't think of a single non-capped, "elite" player. It's the old-school mentality of snobbery and cliquishness, even if they've only been playing for about 6 months to a year or two. Capped players who are not elites are friendly with all players, regardless of level, inexperience, guild membership, playstyle, or age. They give helpful answers and share useful information in world chat, instead of disparaging or belittling new players and giving smart aleck answers, simply because they've grown tired of repeatedly seeing the same questions. They share their own experiences about the game and yet allow newer players the space to form their own opinions and playstyle. :)
 

CalmWind

Legendary Hero
Platform
iOS, PC
#52
I wholeheartedly agree that these forerunners are awesome! When the Wiki has yet to be updated immediately after a new patch, they're the players who not only have the answers, but who spend a lot of their play time unselfishly guiding players through new quests and zones. Yet even they need to draw the line somewhere. When during the course of a day, shortly after new elders have been added to the game, I sometimes see the same individuals helping with the same new tier of elders not just once or even twice, but three or four times per day??? That's just insanity, and while I understand that different play schedules mean that people sometimes miss an elder run by that much, I don't think it's healthy when you ONLY see the same group of people helping all the time, just because they happen to be logged in when all those runs are occurring. Sometimes, you just need to wait a day or two to get your elder run completed. :)

It has a trickle-down effect when you always see the same names popping up in elder kill credits, hour after hour, day after day. There are a lot more players who are able to help with elder kills than you would think there are, if you're only looking at those pop-ups! -- Newer players should be encouraged to begin helping early on. As soon as they're able is ideal. If they're around lvl 40-50, they can easily help out with lvl 20 and 30 elders. However, they can begin contributing to the Wiki and creating video tutorials and player-written guides at any point! Maybe they won't be able to create a complete guide to the nature hunter early on, but they could create a discussion thread on the forums about this subclass, asking questions in it and discussing build, stats, and gear issues with other nature hunters. And all of this discussion could eventually be turned into a helpful guide that new players seem to request often. (Why should it have to be a capped player or one of the "elites" who creates guides like this???) Newer players shouldn't simply be referred to the forums and Wiki, but should also be encouraged to interact with and contribute to those resources, as their knowledge of the game increases. I've had former guildies tell me that because they had been helped out early on by other players, they wanted to help others when they became high level, too. Yet they either quit playing before they got to level cap or they simply changed their mind entirely about wanting to help other players! Getting newer players to "buy into" the ideology of the helpful V&H community has long-lasting effects, and I feel also helps to prevent some of the elitism that can happen to people at the later stages of the game.

I see a difference between your ordinary strong capped player and an elite. It's all in the change in attitude, high egotism, and selfishness. You see, not all capped players are "elites." (As a matter of fact, the majority of them are not "elites", no matter how many elder levels they may have!) However, I can't think of a single non-capped, "elite" player. It's the old-school mentality of snobbery and cliquishness, even if they've only been playing for about 6 months to a year or two. Capped players who are not elites are friendly with all players, regardless of level, inexperience, guild membership, playstyle, or age. They give helpful answers and share useful information in world chat, instead of disparaging or belittling new players and giving smart aleck answers, simply because they've grown tired of repeatedly seeing the same questions. They share their own experiences about the game and yet allow newer players the space to form their own opinions and playstyle. :)
This discussion has gotten really off topic to the point that it's turning me off from the actual game. No one is required to help with elders or write the Wiki and who cares if the same people do? Also what is going on in server 1 that you have to write all of this?
 

Leizong

Legendary Hero
Platform
Android, PC
#53
You can put a board next to it, and mark the top ten players with the most clearance times. There are three levels of gold, silver and bronze. When each player clicks on it, you can see the name on it.
 

Leizong

Legendary Hero
Platform
Android, PC
#54
At the same time, when each person reaches 50, 500, 1000, 5000, 10000 times, he can get some achievement rewards, such as equipment or socket.
 

Karma

BRA Member
Characters
Instant Karma, Boot II
Platform
Steam
#55
I have to admit, at first glance I have some apprehension with regard to a elder run being a timed event in order to receive Elder Fragments.
Elder Fragments are not optional like gold and other dungeon items.
I am concerned that this may promote more elitism as we have already seen on occasion with other dungeon runs.
Hopefully, the players will really give this a very good going over during the testing phase.

Meanwhile, I will wait and see.

Regards
Yes I quoted myself because so much of this has gone way beyond the intend of my post.

First: There is a HUGE difference between a capped player (call them elite, if you wish) and ELITISM!
The ELITISM I referred to is the sense of entitlement I have personally witnessed in both chat and here in the forums with regard to dungeons.
(do your own forums search)

People who did not want lower level player in "their dungeon" because it handicapped their chance of gaining the max rewards.
There were even calls that lower level players should not be allowed in the dungeon.
(despite the fact that there is only one dungeon and is meant for all if they finished the questline)

Fortunately, this attitude is very much in the minority. It's unfortunate that exists at all, hence my concern.

Second: My apprehension is confined to an elder run being a timed event in order to receive Elder Fragments.
I also forgot to mention that some older players and/or some with some health issues may have difficulty speeding thru the dungeon.
(the "twitch factor" isn't as good as a 20 yr old)

I have no issue with dungeons or any voluntary, side content being timed, hard (within reason) or whatever.
I even support and encourage a dungeon designed for the exclusive use of capped players.
They earned it and I think it might help with player retention.

Third: I did not condemn the new elder concept. I simply stated I have some apprehension about it and I hope it will be reviewed closely during the testing period.

Forth, and last: I said I would wait and see.
That is what I intend to do.

Regards
 
Characters
Layla Littlenymph
Platform
PC, Steam
#56
Having an Elitist attitude is not a requirement for becoming an Elite.
Becoming an Elite is not a requirement for having an Elitist attitude.

... fluffy dungeons :ROFLMAO:
I am all for the concept of fluffy dungeons. Where else could I have any expectation of obtaining a piece of fluffy bunny tail gear.

This bears repeating...
I think assuming the new elders will be timed, or solo, is reading too much into what is said on the website.

All that is said is that the elders will be part of a dungeon type environment - but dungeons do not have to be timed, there are other ways to signify "completing" a dungeon.
On the solo front, it merely says that there will be no scaling of the dungeon, ie you will not be boosted up to match the elders it will be "just you" against these powerful enemies. In this context, it merely means that it will be your character, with the same level of skills and gear that you normally have, not scaled up to match the dungeon and elders.
I totally agree with this post.
Assuming that all dungeons will always be timed is exactly that; an assumption. I don't happen to care that much for timed content, but it's simply a mechanic that has been applied to the one and only dungeon that is currently in the game. There is no basis for assuming that this will be the sole means for defining a status for ranks of silver and gold in future dungeons.

When putting the "it will be just you" comment into context with what was said prior, it simply means that there will be no automatic modifiers assigned to your character and it makes specific mention of scaling. I do not see any indication that the new Elders in their "dungeon environment" will be solo content unless you wish to assign double meaning to the "just you" portion of those comments. I do not feel that this is the case, but it will require a dev comment or seeing it first hand to know for certain. At this point, those two words, alone, are not enough to convince me that solo Elder dungeons will be a part of the coming expansion.

This discussion has gotten really off topic to the point that it's turning me off from the actual game. No one is required to help with elders or write the Wiki and who cares if the same people do? Also what is going on in server 1 that you have to write all of this?
Agreed.
I don't think these opinions are specific to US1, but I agree that the topic has gone astray.
There is always a lot of speculation before a new build and/or expansion. This is a good thing and the Otters fuel and delight in it. That said, there is a notable difference between speculation and assumption. We seem to be suffering from too little of the first, and far too much of the latter. The devs have given us much to speculate upon, based on what has been said. I find it a little unproductive to expend too much energy on what has not been said.
 
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
#57
Please keep posts to the topic and not at others. Name calling or calling out will get posts moderated.
 
Characters
Sudaki, Hamba, Eola
Platform
Android, PC
#58
Not sure if this was addressed, If it was I missed it. I know the appearances will not save to wardrobe from gear pre-release. But what about the premium gear appearance from the shop with the enchantments?
 
Royal Guardian
Platform
Steam
#59
Not sure if this was addressed, If it was I missed it. I know the appearances will not save to wardrobe from gear pre-release. But what about the premium gear appearance from the shop with the enchantments?
The way I took it that only goes for husks. For example if you kept a shadow fated robe from before starfall in your locker all the time, it will not duplicate into your wardrobe. But all that is in your gnogwindow, no matter from when, it goes to wardrobe
 
Top