Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
Actually, nothing in your post answers any of the points I mentioned. All a team based version of pvp might change about the issues I mentioned would be that the team with the best gear would win instead of the player with the best gear.

That and it adds issues of scaling, choosing teams, balancing groups, but of course none of that matters, right?
Did you read the entire post? I think you missed the part about gear not being a factor in that mode. I gave a couple examples such as scaling and/ OR level matchmaking.

As far as choosing teams, I'd imagine it would be random teams every time. Have you ever played a game that you enter a que for matchmaking? Because that's how nearly all of them work.

So yes in fact none of that matters as it's all taken care of in the matchmaking lobby. If you're playing a sports game for example, and you que up solo then the game gives you random teammates.

OR let's say capture the flag is a 10 v 10 there could be rules set so that you can only have a party size of X amount and the rest are randomly matched. There's plenty of easy solutions to get around what you mentioned, and it exists in nearly every game that has a matchmaking system. Of course those that do choose their teammates may have a slight advantage over those that que solo but that's how it works....
 

Myst

Squirrel
Characters
Mystic Fox
Platform
PC
... So yes in fact none of that matters as it's all taken care of in the matchmaking lobby.
... There's plenty of easy solutions to get around what you mentioned, and it exists in nearly every game that has a matchmaking system.
One thing pops out to me here... this game does not have a matchmaking system (at least that I'm aware of) and I don't think I have ever played a game that uses it. It's not an easy solution because it would be adding to an already long 'to-do' dev list... unless it is easy to implement a matchmaking system?
 

Roselda

BRA Member
Characters
Roselda, Rozelda
Platform
PC
imo:
Maybe Ivar should make a [ ] folder, where all the pvp-related stuff can be in one place at this forums. And it would be MOST convenient, if users would be able to toggle that folder on or off (like they can with clicking on users name and push the button "ignore").
I don't want to get into this PVP argument at all, because it's been discussed ad infinitum. But I really, really like this idea of putting it all into a single folder. This would benefit both sides of the discussion, as new players who are thinking of posting could readily see what's already been said about it, and long-time players who are very tired of seeing it come up for the gazillionth time could easily ignore it.
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
One thing pops out to me here... this game does not have a matchmaking system (at least that I'm aware of) and I don't think I have ever played a game that uses it. It's not an easy solution because it would be adding to an already long 'to-do' dev list... unless it is easy to implement a matchmaking system?
If that were to be a problem to implement then my other suggestion was level scaling, meaning if you enter into the CTF everyone is set at the same level + or - whatever the set level may be so it is more balanced out. I think a matchmaking system would be better but if the resources aren't there, scaling would be much easier.
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
I don't want to get into this PVP argument at all, because it's been discussed ad infinitum. But I really, really like this idea of putting it all into a single folder. This would benefit both sides of the discussion, as new players who are thinking of posting could readily see what's already been said about it, and long-time players who are very tired of seeing it come up for the gazillionth time could easily ignore it.
It is a good idea, however it could just as easily be ignored without it being in its own place.
 

Bored dude

Citizen
If that were to be a problem to implement then my other suggestion was level scaling, meaning if you enter into the CTF everyone is set at the same level + or - whatever the set level may be so it is more balanced out. I think a matchmaking system would be better but if the resources aren't there, scaling would be much easier.
This seems doable if it’s just scaled mobs/bosses that are able to drop flags in the moment that you kill them. All they’d need to do is add a timer/npc to make a leaderboard out of it. There are no instances in this game for the time being. Sounds like any other seasonal event that has particular drops, without a timer. If it was randomly spawned I’m not sure if the mods can do it..without changing the way quest items are spawned unless they make flags spawn like the treasures of Zorian and add in the chances to randomize it’s spawn which would need them to do a lot more than it seems.even zingaras have a pattern of respawn spots.
 

Majenta

Villager
Forum Moderator
Platform
PC
Last edited
Did you read the entire post? I think you missed the part about gear not being a factor in that mode. I gave a couple examples such as scaling and/ OR level matchmaking.

As far as choosing teams, I'd imagine it would be random teams every time. Have you ever played a game that you enter a que for matchmaking? Because that's how nearly all of them work.

So yes in fact none of that matters as it's all taken care of in the matchmaking lobby. If you're playing a sports game for example, and you que up solo then the game gives you random teammates.

OR let's say capture the flag is a 10 v 10 there could be rules set so that you can only have a party size of X amount and the rest are randomly matched. There's plenty of easy solutions to get around what you mentioned, and it exists in nearly every game that has a matchmaking system. Of course those that do choose their teammates may have a slight advantage over those that que solo but that's how it works....
Yeah, I read the bit where you SAID gear wouldn't be an issue. What I didn't see is exactly how you planned to make this come true. (And just so we're clear I'm not saying I didn't read your airy assurance that matchmaking or scaling would magically solve the issues of levels, gear, sockets, elder levels, rebirths etc I'm saying nothing you said provided any evidence that those issues could or would be addressed by random team selection). I would contend that gear still makes a difference, whether it is teams or individuals taking part. Take a simple example - two teams of friends decide to have a road race, and all agree to pick teams at random on the day of the race. Eleven of them arrive driving various standard family cars, the 12th has a Koenigsegg. Don't you think it's just possible the team with him in it might just win? Just cos it's a team event does not mean gear doesn't matter.

Yes other games have matchmaking systems to create groups. This game doesn't. So that's one major headache for the Devs right there. How do you balance different classes, levels, gear, socketed vs unsocketed, enhanced vs, unenhanced 5th rebirth vs 1st rebirth, elder levels vs new player? How does this queuing system work? How are players allocated to each team? How long do players have to wait to be allocated to a team? What happens when after waiting an hour for teams to be selected, the first two or three players have logged off in the meantime? And finally the real kicker given the low level of support for pvp amongst the current player base, how often will there be as many as 20 players online at the same time on the same server all wanting to compete in this pvp contest, all with time to wait in a queue and all with nothing else they would rather do?

As for level scaling, just read any thread about dungeons to see how well that works in negating the differences in gear.

So again I ask for DETAILS of how the points I mentioned could be addressed.
 
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Airy

Huntress
:LOL::ROFLMAO: I can't believe he started again! Since in all these ridiculous posts <mod edit> the main character doing the discussions, i guess he or his friends open threads like that to give him a platform to prove his point over and over and over and over again.
Seriously man. This game has no PVP! Live with it or go play something else.
And don't worry. Yes. The devs surely saw your awesome suggestions. If they love it they will certainly change the game in the next few years. Maybe they will even offer you a job. But they already saw it in your first discussion. Let it go now.
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
:LOL::ROFLMAO: I can't believe he started again! Since in all these ridiculous posts <mod edit> the main character doing the discussions, i guess he or his friends open threads like that to give him a platform to prove his point over and over and over and over again.
Seriously man. This game has no PVP! Live with it or go play something else.
And don't worry. Yes. The devs surely saw your awesome suggestions. If they love it they will certainly change the game in the next few years. Maybe they will even offer you a job. But they already saw it in your first discussion. Let it go now.
I can't control other people making posts, so I'm sorry I don't have super powers :)

If you don't like it take it up with the OP (who I assume left as they have no other comments) or ignore the thread?
 

Scrumptious

Great Adventurer
Platform
Android
But Scrumptious? I can control you making posts, and I'm getting awfully tired of you deliberately baiting the community. Take a break. Fish elsewhere please. :)
Please show everyone the proof that the OP is me I'll be waiting. I saw a post regarding PvP and I commented, nobody is forced to go into the thread and read/reply. If you call commenting on a newer players post baiting then I'm not sure you understand what baiting is :/
 

Grumpy

Master Farmer
Characters
Oldman Oin, Bedevere, Nator
Platform
Steam
Under the current definitions isn't Saving Private Otter PVP ?
Or the recent hide and seek ?
Unfortunately neither had any automated team building
 

Seawolf

Reader
I come from PvP games. I started playing during muds. I played UO pre-trammel, played on a pvp servers in everquest 1 & 2, world of warcraft , vanguard, DAOC, warhammer online, guild wars 1&2, Aion, Rift, and a bunch more I can't remember. If I want to PvP I will go play one of those games (those that are still around). If I don't want to PvP, I play here. PvP will waste the little time this tiny development company has to spend on creating content. Sorry, this game doesn't have what you are looking for. I suggest the above games may be more suitable for your style of play. The majority of the community prefers the devs to spend the time available fixing existing problems, finishing existing storylines, and adding similar content. Thanks for checking us out though! (Btw.. No we're not all old, don't understand pvp, or any of the other comments you've made.) We just don't agree. Have a wonderful day!
 

Joleen

BRA Member
Royal Guardian
Characters
Kavita, Katona, Toget, Avani
Platform
Android, PC
Huhhhh Im sorry if Im new and I havent read EVERY single post here... also 8 years with no PvP? Thats maybe why no one's heard of this game for 8 years ;)
Actually, this game has been featured in a few "The Best Of (insert year)" mmo articles. One thing I recall from when I first started playing the game is that the devs wanted to provide a game that is free from any Pay To Win features. PVP always = PTW and then the toxicity begins to flow like lava from an angry volcano.

When I left V&H to take a break we had a few key players (tanks, healers) that felt superior and generally made the game and especially any group-related activity quite miserable. Tanks were ignoring requests for mana breaks between elder bosses in EZ's, certain healers would refuse to heal people they disliked and I saw Elder runs fall apart because of this. When I picture scenarios like PVP being plugged in to the system I can see a PTW aspect being introduced which would raise toxicity levels to the nth degree.

I wouldn't think of going to the forums of a game like Naruto Online, and encourage them to get rid of PVP because if you think about it - PVP is about all of the true content most PVP-centered games have! If you remove the PVP the content is so small you would be bored and quit within weeks, like I did with several games I tried this last couple of years. MMO's are having problems BECAUSE of PVP and most of them have no idea what they are doing wrong.

V&H has content and a lot of it! The lore is fascinating and often funny and entertaining to read and let's just look at that map! Very few games have as many areas for exploration.

I'm not an anti-PVP person, but having played mmo's for many years now, I will say that I can't see how PVP would improve V&H in any measurable way. I do see where it could hurt the game and the community in multiple ways. I do see that it would be difficult to insert PVP into V&H without major overhauls in gear, or an introduction of PVP-Only gear (which I've seen in other games and I am not a fan of that system), and with the randomness of gear, ALL of the people participating in PVP would riot when they go two weeks looking for that one frustrating rune they NEED but cannot find. OH! And you can throw fair in-game trading out of the window while you're at it, because if your PVP nemesis has that lovely rare rune you want - he's not going to sell it to you!
 

Ganda Priest

Priest
Characters
Swedbrother
Platform
iOS
Must confess I don’t really understand this fight about pvp or not. Personally I checked before I entered this game. So one reason I joined was that there were NO pvp. Played earlier a game for 7 years where they had pvp and that game become more and more hostile in text and action as time went by. Have only played this game for 3 month and love it. Especially with all these great people that wants to help and so on. My suggestion to this gentleman is: join a pvp game and you be happy :)
 
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